Basically what it does is it bleeds you dry and also win infantry engagements since most Axis infantry is long-ranged and need to stay still to unleash reasonable DPS (compared to in-your-face Allied infantry).
The mortar half-track is cheaper and more or less does the same job, I agree. But it doesn't bleed as much because it can hardly hit mobile infantry and it is a lot more fragile.
Can we adjust the Scott already?
4 Mar 2019, 09:39 AM
#61
Posts: 88
4 Mar 2019, 10:05 AM
#62
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Dont know why dont know how, but one thing is certain: WE NEED TO NERF USF!!!1
The only thing that is certain is how shallow your perspective is here. Please come back to us with a list of improvements and nerfs done to USF over the last 6 months and then dare to make this same statement with a straight face.
4 Mar 2019, 10:08 AM
#63
Posts: 2243
EVERYONE who play with 2 Scotts say: it is such a great unit...you can look every stream u want: when the USF player goes double scott he laugh everytime how great this unit wipe constantly the enemy squads.
The most player even say: its to good.
and you want to kill this things with your tanks? have fun to hunt this fast gocart which needs 3 hits and has smoke and small hitbox...
The most player even say: its to good.
and you want to kill this things with your tanks? have fun to hunt this fast gocart which needs 3 hits and has smoke and small hitbox...
4 Mar 2019, 10:11 AM
#64
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
EVERYONE who play with 2 Scotts say: it is such a great unit...you can look every stream u want: when the USF player goes double scott he laugh everytime how great this unit wipe constantly the enemy squads.
The most player even say: its to good.
and you want to kill this things with your tanks? have fun to hunt this fast gocart which needs 3 hits and has smoke and small hitbox...
If you invest 140 fuel into pure anti infantry firepower, it better be great...
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 Mar 2019, 10:16 AM
#65
Posts: 2243
If you invest 140 fuel into pure anti infantry firepower, it better be great...
140 isnt this much to have this high mobile, huge range, high accurracy, mostly safe vs enemy attacks, providing smoke unit which wipe often.
what cost a brumbar? what micro does need a brummbar? has it this huge range? smoke? high mobilty? can wipe from safe distance? i would say: same cost, very high micro, no, no, yes
there is a minimum 400% chance to lose a brummbar when using than losing a scott...cause..u know this high long range a scott has..
4 Mar 2019, 10:30 AM
#66
Posts: 1389 | Subs: 1
Maybe i am dumb a lot, but what kind of thing is head-on comparison of Heavy Assault Gun and Light Mobile Howitzer?
4 Mar 2019, 10:36 AM
#67
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
there is a minimum 400% chance to lose a brummbar when using than losing a scott...cause..u know this high long range a scott has..
You build 1 brumm and lose 4 ? XD
4 Mar 2019, 10:44 AM
#68
Posts: 5279
You build 1 brumm and lose 4 ? XD
I mean, to be fair once a vehicle decrews once it seems to de-crew every time it's supposed to die so... It's possible I guess?
#stalinwept
4 Mar 2019, 10:51 AM
#69
Posts: 2243
You build 1 brumm and lose 4 ? XD
I mean there is much higher chance to lose a brummbar...than losing a scott...due the brummbar need to be on the first line (low range) to make dmg...the scott can fire from far range /mostly 3.-4. line...behind your TDs
4 Mar 2019, 10:53 AM
#70
Posts: 591 | Subs: 1
Maybe i am dumb a lot, but what kind of thing is head-on comparison of Heavy Assault Gun and Light Mobile Howitzer?
It's symptomatic of the difficulty in finding any sort of comparison to the Scott, becauze it has no direct equivalent in any other army.
It's half way between a MHT and an Assault gun, IMO. Unlike MHT it can fire directly and has a HP pool. Unlike the Assault Gun it has a decent range but less HP and no armour.
Brum still feels like the closest comparison, as a slow fat siblibg. Both can fire over shot blockers and come with a barrage of some sort? It's sure as hell not perfect, but its as close as you get.
I don't see any way you can up the micro demands of the Scott and still have it be useful, though. Autofire already leaves you in AT gun range. Barrages don't track. It can't wipe like the StuG E or Brum.
Each scott us basically the cost of two Mortar HT and I stand by my compatison tbat the pair of HTs will cause much more damage. For the extra fuel some HP, smoke and a direct fire ability seems lik a fine offset. Turn it into a micro tac to make it hit anything and it'll just immediately get shelved for aforementioned MHTs.
4 Mar 2019, 11:02 AM
#71
Posts: 1389 | Subs: 1
It's symptomatic of the difficulty in finding any sort of comparison to the Scott, becauze it has no direct equivalent in any other army.
It's half way between a MHT and an Assault gun, IMO. Unlike MHT it can fire directly and has a HP pool. Unlike the Assault Gun it has a decent range but less HP and no armour.
Brum still feels like the closest comparison, as a slow fat siblibg. Both can fire over shot blockers and come with a barrage of some sort? It's sure as hell not perfect, but its as close as you get.
I don't see any way you can up the micro demands of the Scott and still have it be useful, though. Autofire already leaves you in AT gun range. Barrages don't track. It can't wipe like the StuG E or Brum.
Each scott us basically the cost of two Mortar HT and I stand by my compatison tbat the pair of HTs will cause much more damage. For the extra fuel some HP, smoke and a direct fire ability seems lik a fine offset. Turn it into a micro tac to make it hit anything and it'll just immediately get shelved for aforementioned MHTs.
I see, but why not compare then with mentioned above StuG III E, or SU-76M (light, fast, no armor and possibility to shot over obstacles)? They are much closer to Scott in stats and their role on the field, instead of Brumbar, which looks like "Lets make vice versa Scott in any stat we can".
4 Mar 2019, 11:07 AM
#72
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
People are fine when they see their brumbar/Pz4/any kind of rocket arty/Sturmtiger/AVRE wipe or almost wipe squads here and there but they don't like being at the receiving end of the same situation.
It´s totally fine for an Ostheer player to adapt to an heavy team weapon user by building 1 or 2 panzerwerfers and use it from out of most counter range to get almost guarantee wipes but dual scott that require much more micro killing models here and there, not wiping anything since squad spacing update, that's an issue for Ostheer.
The result is there, Scott are fucking annoying to play vs, we can credit them that. But they don't obliterate squads.
It´s totally fine for an Ostheer player to adapt to an heavy team weapon user by building 1 or 2 panzerwerfers and use it from out of most counter range to get almost guarantee wipes but dual scott that require much more micro killing models here and there, not wiping anything since squad spacing update, that's an issue for Ostheer.
The result is there, Scott are fucking annoying to play vs, we can credit them that. But they don't obliterate squads.
4 Mar 2019, 11:14 AM
#73
Posts: 591 | Subs: 1
I see, but why not compare then with mentioned above StuG III E, or SU-76M (light, fast, no armor and possibility to shot over obstacles)? They are much closer to Scott in stats and their role on the field, instead of Brumbar, which looks like "Lets make vice versa Scott in any stat we can".
StuG E is perhaps a better comparison. The 76 is a TD with a circmstantially useful barrage, rather than the Scott's generally useless one.
4 Mar 2019, 11:24 AM
#74
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
PLS do not make this personal. Just read the first page and you can easily see who brought rocker launcher and MHT into this debate.
I did not say it need a nerf in its durability, I said that combination of damage output and durability is simply too high. The unit needs to be nerfed and I have made no suggestions on how so far.
My bad i didn't read far back enough. How do you think it should be adjusted? I assumed you were bringing up durability cause that was it
4 Mar 2019, 11:24 AM
#75
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
StuG E is perhaps a better comparison. The 76 is a TD with a circmstantially useful barrage, rather than the Scott's generally useless one.
Your theory is not support by numbers:
Scott has less scatter on barrage and does more damage.
It also does not cost MU.
4 Mar 2019, 11:25 AM
#76
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
People are fine when they see their brumbar/Pz4/any kind of rocket arty/Sturmtiger/AVRE wipe or almost wipe squads here and there but they don't like being at the receiving end of the same situation.
It´s totally fine for an Ostheer player to adapt to an heavy team weapon user by building 1 or 2 panzerwerfers and use it from out of most counter range to get almost guarantee wipes but dual scott that require much more micro killing models here and there, not wiping anything since squad spacing update, that's an issue for Ostheer.
The result is there, Scott are fucking annoying to play vs, we can credit them that. But they don't obliterate squads.
AVRE and Sturmtiger are doctrinal and much more expensive. The Brummbär has already been nerfed. No idea why there is a Panzer IV in this comparison.
If we are comparing the Scott to rocket artillery, do also bring up the fact that unlike rocket artillery that can be countered in a single shot by a daring tank dive or a lucky artillery strike, Scotts have enough HP and the smoke to survive that. Also another argument can be made that it is just as (if not more) powerful to have a vehicle that will constantly harass enemy squads to the point of forcing retreats and wipes as opposed to a vehicle that can fire a single barrage every minute or so. A barrage that might wipe a squad or might miss entirely.
4 Mar 2019, 11:29 AM
#77
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
My bad i didn't read far back enough. How do you think it should be adjusted? I assumed you were bringing up durability cause that was it
No problem.
Its rather difficult to tell. USF where designed to be a offensive faction but with the new changes to their tech tree they can be as nearly as defective as Ostheer while their pack howitzer, Scott, Major Arty/Reckon, MHT and Priest give them the edge over Ostheer in static play.
Imo has to rethink the USF design and the cost effectiveness of their units.
It my opinion that most allied issues come from their balance with OKW and buffing allies to compensate hearts Ostheer. This apply to the case of Scott also, which Ostheer have a really hard time countering.
4 Mar 2019, 11:38 AM
#78
Posts: 591 | Subs: 1
Your theory is not support by numbers:
Scott has less scatter on barrage and does more damage.
It also does not cost MU.
Lethal Radius on the SU is 1.5, Lethal Radius on the Scott is 1.35.
Su-76 has a radius of 5 compared to the Scott's radius of 4.
SU-76 reloads faster.
However, much more importantly, the barrage is an AI upgrade to the SU-76's gun.
The barrage is an AI downgrade to the Scott, which can otherwise autofire at infantry as they move.
None of this is very important to the fact that the Scott compares very poorly to the SU-76 because they are a AT/AI unit respectively.
4 Mar 2019, 11:42 AM
#79
Posts: 5279
Straight up, why not make it more like the pak howi and mortar pit? Shorter auto fire range but long barrage? If you want to auto fire you are closer to danger, if you don't want to risk it you can use it as fire support like a mini howitzer.
#stalinwept
4 Mar 2019, 11:55 AM
#80
Posts: 591 | Subs: 1
Straight up, why not make it more like the pak howi and mortar pit? Shorter auto fire range but long barrage? If you want to auto fire you are closer to danger, if you don't want to risk it you can use it as fire support like a mini howitzer.
Already works that way.
60 range on the autofire, 80 on the barrage. Autofire is AT gun range.
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