Discuss for the votes

I know this is a little offtopic here but I hope that Relic allows the balanceteam to slightly tone down all the retarded (overpowered) meta doctrines, so these new docs actually got a good chance to shine.

The most important targets then would be IMO: (with the ridiculous abilities in sentence brackets)

Special Operations Doc (flares, command panther)
Overwatch (territory flares, Anti Tank strafes come too fast)
Jaeger Armor Doc (scopes)

Soviet mark target: the recon capability should be removed

And maybe Pathfinders but idk

Scopes OP? In 2019? Cmon...

So you ignored the fact that both OKW/OST new commander give them at least one powerful call-in unit(command tiger) along with power tools such as Radio Intercept or Recon Sweep?

I mentioned the Il2 bombing and t34-85 because there is no such commander option available currently. I didn't add shock troops (I said maybe add) because it might be over powerful.

And in fact, the best commander in my mind is OST Jaeger Armor Doctrine, you have recon, offmap bombing, spotting scope, and elephant in one commander.

Mm I think T34-85 is better with shock troops than IL2 imo, and Atleast the OKW one was better than giving them pak40 tellers at infantry and tiger.

I think I suggested that the ost one either be okw p4 or tiger since both would seem a little overloaded so I agree with that.

Maybe add il2 to airborne then, it goes with the doctrine and can give some late game teeth for it.

And yes I agree ost jaeger armored is one of the best doctrines for 2v2+.

Yeah, more allied powercreep, now its calliope turn.

I really like Urban Assault winning the voting, more rangers would be interesting to see ingame.

go to play USF with calliope

You will have a good time

Think the debate would be allot more constructive if they in the page a rough outline of the commanders was presented. It does need to be accurate but searching for this commanders is a bit confusing.

Scopes OP? In 2019? Cmon...

Scopes are batshit OP, maybe not on the 222 anymore (+30% sight) but on anything else (+100% sight). Getting crazy vision for just 30mun and standing still is a joke.
You spot AT guns (and TDs) long before you enter their arc of fire if you hit the stop hotkey occassionally. ---> perfect for a vet 1 brummbar and his bunker buster barrage
You spot the enemy long before he spots you...
You can see the enemy trying to flank you super early...
And all that for a low price, 0 possible counterplay and minimal micro input.

Btw, vet 3 251 with scopes has same sight range like the old vet 3 T70 in recon mode

Think the debate would be allot more constructive if they in the page a rough outline of the commanders was presented. It does need to be accurate but searching for this commanders is a bit confusing.

I made a shory summary on the first page of this topic.

I made a shory summary on the first page of this topic.

that is helpful but now that the votes are in place can we included only the one that actually make it?

I think Sturmpanther should open specific threads for every faction when then first version of the new commanders will be released for testing.
Looking back at the "Revamp commander thread" it was not helpful for discussions that every feedback went in only 1 thread.

Scopes are batshit OP, maybe not on the 222 anymore (+30% sight) but on anything else (+100% sight). Getting crazy vision for just 30mun and standing still is a joke.
You spot AT guns (and TDs) long before you enter their arc of fire if you hit the stop hotkey occassionally. ---> perfect for a vet 1 brummbar and his bunker buster barrage
You spot the enemy long before he spots you...
You can see the enemy trying to flank you super early...
And all that for a low price, 0 possible counterplay and minimal micro input.

Btw, vet 3 251 with scopes has same sight range like the old vet 3 T70 in recon mode

Wait, since when CoH2 has become micromanagement olympics? Everyone here and there pretending to be better just because some genius said that word, where did strategy go? Resource managment? Desition making?

You described perfectly how spotting works, you see before the enemy. Low level players tend to subestimate it but you are clearly overrating spotting. Theres always squads ment to spot without risking the important units, Pios, Engies, you name it.

Spotting only provides information, nothing else. To snipe with an AT is considered OP? To be able to move an HMG to stop a flank is OP? To make good desitions is OP? Id rather say is pretty easy to pull an in masse push (or a gardening blob) and not letting the oponent to react for it, that OP.

Scopes are doctrinal, only available to OST, it synergises the faction design and they are not free. Imagine someone ranting about decrewing tanks being OP, or 6 man squads being OP, you get the idea. Scopes are docrtinal making it a narrow feature of a metagame weak OST. Nothing else is needed to say.

Let's just give every faction a 100 munitions ability that disables the fog of war permanently at this point

Let's just give every faction a 100 munitions ability that disables the fog of war permanently at this point

Nono just axis Allies have too many "op" things as it is

Nono just axis Allies have too many "op" things as it is

Axis dont beed that crazy maphack upgrade, they have arty flares on spec ops...

It's disappointing that the Soviets are getting another commander that relies on elite infantry call-ins. 2/3rds of their commanders are already like that, and it's not very interesting.

Pretty much no surprises with voting results. And only in one case was choosen doctrine which I didn't vote for. Whatever.

Can we have final loadout of all 5 new doctrines before beta-test starts?

It's disappointing that the Soviets are getting another commander that relies on elite infantry call-ins. 2/3rds of their commanders are already like that, and it's not very interesting.

That's results of the original Soviet design. If you don't include some kind of elite infantry or tank, then the doctrine wouldn't be choosen by players. And it's to late already to change that.