Ostheer MG/Early

So ive been thinking about this for a good while now and i really cannot wrap my head around these choices. Namely the price of the ostheer mg...why is it 260 MP when its the best machine gun in the game all things considered and coming at t0? thats the same as Maxim that requires t2 tech and sucks badly. earlier argument was the weak infantry play of the ostheer but this argument nowadays is fairly moot with grenadiers scaling with all the "free" goodies they get compared to their eastern counterpart, soviets. Same goes for soviet MG, the maxim which is really weak with 2 models more but far far worse performance and requires t2. One would compare the ostheer mg to something like the vickers because its the closest allies have to it, but even vickers coming at t0 costs 20 mp more and has worse performance suppression wise and the damage isnt that inspiring either.ive also noticed ostheer starts with more than soviets at the start of the game, and as the meta stands currently soviets are forced to tech t1 and use expensive penal units because conscripts suck really really badly as does maxim. the 50. cal that comes at t1/2 was also nerfed recently and costs more but its atleast good with AP ammo for starts.
But i still cant wrap my head around why ostheer is so favoured? if anything their mg is overperforming and their infantryplay isnt that weak anymore. Ill just also add that ostheer also gets better starting units than soviets or USF with an impressive sight and close range dps/Flamer/bunkers.
Playing against ostheer after all these years still leaves a sour taste in my mouth and i dont see why i would play soviets over ostheer. especially in bigger game modes with maps being what they are ostheer can easily lock down parts of the map down really easily early, even more so with an OKW ally synergy

Play Ost, go try it and come back and ask for a MG nerf again. ( do atleast 10x 1v1s)

Tbh I think the mg42 is fine and all the other mgs suck ass. The mg42 does its job. The maxim and vickers and sometimes even the 50 do not. What the bloody fuck is the point in building an MG that the enemy can walk right up to, under fire and throw a flame nade at? What good are 6 men when if can't suppress and deathloops? Machine guns are supposed to stop massed infantry and the mg42 is the only one that does that. The MG34 is at least cheap, so its slightly underwhelming performance makes sense but the allied ones all cost more in either tech or unit cost (or both) and can't even do their damn job.

Mg42 is fine, it's all the others that isn't.

playercard plz

First of all, MG42 actually only suppres infantry while dealing not so much damage to it - because he cant hit anything smaller than tank and because suppression cuts off like 20% of incoming damage. On the other hand, Vikkers or .50cal can kill infantry, not just force it to slow down a bit.
Also, mg42 is way slower than any other counterpart - both packing/unpacking AND traverse/aiming time, which allows you, if well micro'ed, to force it to retreat even if rushing it head-on. And lets not forget glorious CoD1 - COMRADE, WAIT TILL THEY RELOAD!

Maybe you should consider flanking, not just head-on slamming into MG42 arc?
Soviets have thousand of ways to counter OST mg. Personally, I prefer following build order: Cons>t2>Cons>mortar(in team games only, in 1v1 you want field prescence ASAP, so 3 cons+maxim is usual), but I've seen flamer car more often.

AND DON'T YOU DARE TO INSULT MY BOI CONSCRIPT! I cant say it is hands down best infantry ingame, but it not the worst either(ostruppens are). They can do their work reliably in mid/lategame, have acsess to various tools for defence and attacking at the same time.

playercard plz

First of all, MG42 actually only suppres infantry while dealing not so much damage to it - because he cant hit anything smaller than tank and because suppression cuts off like 20% of incoming damage. On the other hand, Vikkers or .50cal can kill infantry, not just force it to slow down a bit.
Also, mg42 is way slower than any other counterpart - both packing/unpacking AND traverse/aiming time, which allows you, if well micro'ed, to force it to retreat even if rushing it head-on. And lets not forget glorious CoD1 - COMRADE, WAIT TILL THEY RELOAD!

Maybe you should consider flanking, not just head-on slamming into MG42 arc?
Soviets have thousand of ways to counter OST mg. Personally, I prefer following build order: Cons>t2>Cons>mortar(in team games only, in 1v1 you want field prescence ASAP, so 3 cons+maxim is usual), but I've seen flamer car more often.

AND DON'T YOU DARE TO INSULT MY BOI CONSCRIPT! I cant say it is hands down best infantry ingame, but it not the worst either(ostruppens are). They can do their work reliably in mid/lategame, have acsess to various tools for defence and attacking at the same time.

Maxim doesnt do either ,suppress or deal damage and u can forget about pinning. Anyone can walk up to it and nade it or grens can riflenade it with ease forcing it out due to the range of it. And maxim is thesame price as mg-42. or u could say its actually more because of tech requirements but grens come at t1 too so. less arc too and it doesnt have the lightning fast pack anymore either and it deathloops. both vickers and 50.cal were hit with the nerf bat and cost more but still pretty meh. 50.cal is fine but vickers is pretty garbage and i see no difference in the times for them to pack/unpack, its not as good in buildings anymore due to the nerfs also and volks can walk up to it and nade it. its also 4 men.

Nice build, but you realize that ostheer can get the exact same stuff in the exact same time and scale harder while also having more powerful units? Namely the mg-42 that beats maxim out of the water and grens will trash cons later on and do well or even have the advantage if well microed against cons early. so yeah your mortar will be useless because of counter mortar, which even has the ability for it. m3+ flamer gets fausted if you get too close to a mg unless he is dumb. and again pioneers > ce, more starting resources too. didnt ostheer get more because of USF trashing it early but now USF rifles are considered bad early and have no smoke anymore. And there is even a thread about buffins cons because they suck. But why is the mg-42 so cheap? especially when maxim is the exact same price but much much much worse

also mg-42 is far far more oppressive in team games due to corridor maps and synergy as i stated.
And as armadillo said that all the other mg's just suck but mg-42 is fine, then why are the allied mg's peppered with nerf bats patch after patch and mg-42 just left as it is while being so goddamn cheap and coming so early? Maxim has been trash for ages.

no idea which mod you are playing but mg42 is pain in the ass to micro in 1v1, and you want it to be nerfed

Honestly man, post ur scorecard please. Every thread atm is some guy stating a u it is OP or UP because they can’t figure out how to counter it.

Instead, just ask how to counter certain units and plenty will help. Balancing the game to suit every individual complaint isn’t an excuse for poor play

Honestly man, post ur scorecard please. Every thread atm is some guy stating a u it is OP or UP because they can’t figure out how to counter it.

Instead, just ask how to counter certain units and plenty will help. Balancing the game to suit every individual complaint isn’t an excuse for poor play

Belittling me doesnt answer the question at hand, why is it so cheap for its performance and time when allied counterparts are so bad, peppered with nerfs the last patches and more expensive? I know how to counter it thank you, im sure people know how to counter JLI too but it doesnt change the fact that they are overperforming.

no idea which mod you are playing but mg42 is pain in the ass to micro in 1v1, and you want it to be nerfed

Spamming the retreat button on maxim and vickers is pretty painful too. Especially when ur maxim decides to deathloop .

Belittling me doesnt answer the question at hand, why is it so cheap for its performance and time when allied counterparts are so bad, peppered with nerfs the last patches and more expensive? I know how to counter it thank you, im sure people know how to counter JLI too but it doesnt change the fact that they are overperforming.





Spamming the retreat button on maxim and vickers is pretty painful too. Especially when ur maxim decides to deathloop .

watch me do maxims and let it change ur mind

I’m not trying or meant to belittle you however, I think your exaggerating when you say u can walk up to a maxim or a .50 cal and throw a flame made cause that’s just silly - they both suppress well if used correctly (set up in time and covered) especially the .50 cal.

The JLI have been addressed now if u read latest patch notes.

I’m not trying or meant to belittle you however, I think your exaggerating when you say u can walk up to a maxim or a .50 cal and throw a flame made cause that’s just silly - they both suppress well if used correctly (set up in time and covered) especially the .50 cal.

The JLI have been addressed now if u read latest patch notes.

Volks van quite easily get rid of a single maxim unless they walk through red cover or u have vet 1 so u can tap that ability. No they wont LITERALLY walk to it, but by the time it suppresses its too late and they crawl a bit or are already in range to nade it. And as i said 50cal is fine has dmg and suppresses and also has vet 0 AP rounds that are potent. Now maxim is also easier to flank than mg42 due to the lower arc it has. Its more about the vickers that is arc and setup,squad size wise the same as the mg-42 and comes at t0 too but costs 20 mp more and has less impressive suppressive capability and the dmg isnt THAT good. And idk i get a mg to suppress not to kill mostly. And vickers was alongside the 50.cal hit by the nerf bat few patches ago is what i meant but 50.cal still is fine. And about maxim again, it might have the 2 models more but its kinda counterplayed by the bad coding that causes deathloop and the fact it doesnt have the damage or suppress to actually do anything unless massed. But a unit that u need to mass in order it to be effective isnt really a good design and u can spam mg-42 too, just earlier and more effectively at the same cost. And it gets incendiary AP rounds. Also on top of vickers just being pretty big MEH or straight up bad UKF has the lowest starting MP with OKW, and yeah i understand this is probably due to the free section u get but i think it hampers the vickers further due to the cost of it.

JLI was addressed but according to the community it wasnt enough and i personally still see it everygame with okw almost

The MG42 is, more or less, fine. Its every other machine gun that is just not up to scratch.

The .50 and Vickers are both acceptable. That said, two issues:
1) The AP rounds on the MG42 way over preform compared to the heavy MGs (more on the soviet one later). I would sooner see a small reduction to the Ost AP and a small buff to the Soviet and American.

2) The Vickers (like so many brit units) has some of its vet tied to a stupid worthless gimmick. Better in buildings? Waste of vet. And therefore it scales poorly, especially in team games where indirect starts to become king and buildings are a deathtrap.


MG34 is fine and cheap and can vet up long term to compensate for scaling.

The Maxim is awful. Deathloops. No suppression worth a damn. Same price as the MG42. Required tech, unlike the Vickers and MG42. It is bad and it should feel bad. Even sustained fire is a poor comparison to the AP on the Ost MG.

And then here is the DshK. All the problems of the maxim, now with a tiny cone of fire, and stupidly expensive.



The MG42 is in a decent spot. Everything else is just not up to scratch, by varying degrees.

The MG42 is, more or less, fine. Its every other machine gun that is just not up to scratch.

The .50 and Vickers are both acceptable. That said, two issues:
1) The AP rounds on the MG42 way over preform compared to the heavy MGs (more on the soviet one later). I would sooner see a small reduction to the Ost AP and a small buff to the Soviet and American.

2) The Vickers (like so many brit units) has some of its vet tied to a stupid worthless gimmick. Better in buildings? Waste of vet. And therefore it scales poorly, especially in team games where indirect starts to become king and buildings are a deathtrap.


MG34 is fine and cheap and can vet up long term to compensate for scaling.

The Maxim is awful. Deathloops. No suppression worth a damn. Same price as the MG42. Required tech, unlike the Vickers and MG42. It is bad and it should feel bad. Even sustained fire is a poor comparison to the AP on the Ost MG.

And then here is the DshK. All the problems of the maxim, now with a tiny cone of fire, and stupidly expensive.



The MG42 is in a decent spot. Everything else is just not up to scratch, by varying degrees.

Exactly

Dear OP, if you still think that maxim is this trash(stop insulting my stone age MGs) and vickers still costs more than MG42 I think you should either update the game or stop playing with mods. Then if you still need help countering it, someone will suggest at least one of 50 reliable counters for it.

I do think the MG42 is the best MG in the game overall but I think it needs to be strong otherwise Ostheer would be really weak early game. I think the MG is the only unit other than the Sniper that has good impact early game but if it were to be nerfed, Ostheer would need to receive buffs elsewhere in multiple places to compensate.

The Vickers (like so many brit units) has some of its vet tied to a stupid worthless gimmick. Better in buildings? Waste of vet. And therefore it scales poorly, especially in team games where indirect starts to become king and buildings are a deathtrap.

Infantry Section can build trench, so Vicker’s vet is useful for Brits.

What's the solution to the MG42 then? Move it to the t1 barracks and grens to t0? Make it more expensive? Being able to rush t2 on close quarters maps would be kinda nice tbh.

MG42 is great at blocking an area, but it's setup and teardown time leaves a lot to be desired. There's also plenty of times where they'll just evaporate in the face of BAR and bren squads that charge head on. Penals just need to get off a satchel for a wipe. Meanwhile the maxim and 50 cal setup very quickly. Although maxims/50s are not very good solo, they're a nightmare to deal with if they have a couple of squads screening them. They can also reface to suppress a single flanking squad which something an MG42 can't really do.

You seem to be a soviet player OP. Can I ask you why do soviets get such early access to penals? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to be locked behind 300 manpower and 60 fuel? Aren't the satchels a little powerful? They can destroy a whole building. Nobody else gets that... Also they're really cheap compared to pgrens. What gives?

Infantry Section can build trench, so Vicker’s vet is useful for Brits.

I sure love having to spend time and manpower on dozens of neutral trenches that mess with my pathing in order to have an effective machine gun.

Oh wait no I don't.

Not to mention that a vickers is a trench is basically a 100% wipe chance for a Stuka because you can only pop out of the ends.


Tying the vet to a gimmick is bad and should not be encouraged. British vet is bad across the board but its the one big letdown for the otherwise pretty decent Vickers.

What's the solution to the MG42 then? Move it to the t1 barracks and grens to t0? Make it more expensive? Being able to rush t2 on close quarters maps would be kinda nice tbh.

MG42 is great at blocking an area, but it's setup and teardown time leaves a lot to be desired. There's also plenty of times where they'll just evaporate in the face of BAR and bren squads that charge head on. Penals just need to get off a satchel for a wipe. Meanwhile the maxim and 50 cal setup very quickly. Although maxims/50s are not very good solo, they're a nightmare to deal with if they have a couple of squads screening them. They can also reface to suppress a single flanking squad which something an MG42 can't really do.

You seem to be a soviet player OP. Can I ask you why do soviets get such early access to penals? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to be locked behind 300 manpower and 60 fuel? Aren't the satchels a little powerful? They can destroy a whole building. Nobody else gets that... Also they're really cheap compared to pgrens. What gives?

You mean the penals that indeed are 300 mp and require teching that will cuck you out of any support weapons or proper AT? Also, this thread isnt about penals. I don't want to argue about penals, i dont care about penals they could be removed for all I care if Conscripts were fixed and soviet t2 which is why penal play is so strong. Also I play Axis and hardly soviets nowadays

Dear OP, if you still think that maxim is this trash(stop insulting my stone age MGs) and vickers still costs more than MG42 I think you should either update the game or stop playing with mods. Then if you still need help countering it, someone will suggest at least one of 50 reliable counters for it.

I actually had to recheck and ure right got me there, my bad. I still remembered vickers is 280 for some reason, well nonetheless its pretty meh compared to 42 at the same price.

My main point is that either 42 is too good or other MG's are severely lacking (except 50.cal) which is kinda the case. But the vickers and 50.cal was even nerfed few patches ago which makes no sense to me that much