Revamping the revamped Firestorm doctrine

OKW : flamethrower with mp40&grenade in one slot

allies : only flamethrower in one slot

assault package is trash??? that is just greedy thinking

No that is not "greedy thinking" PPsh is far superior upgrade. SMG Vgs are a weak infatry that only bring smoke grenades to the table, PPsh conscripts are one the most cost efficient infantries.

all SMG in coh2 is weaker than all-round long range weapons(mg42,m1919,brens,etc)

it is just fate of CQC unit

No they are not Thompson, is great weapon to range up 25

No that is not "greedy thinking" PPsh is far superior upgrade. SMG Vgs are a weak infatry that only bring smoke grenades to the table, PPsh conscripts are one the most cost efficient infantries.


No they are not Thompson, is great weapon to range up 25

60muni 3ppsh vs 45muni 5 mp40, RA bonus, grenades

ppsh cons dont have grenade&smoke

cost effective? if u want "cost effective", use all range weapon mp44

mp40 dps is not low, so what do u want? buff more dps? make them sprint?

Thompson is best, i agree

but thompson is too expensive and "not good cost effective" Compared to ppsh cons u said(no RA bonus idiot airbornes and have no utility skill poor expensive rangers, 90 muni 4 thompson or 70 muni 2 thompson for cav)

is it trash? no


MP40 also not trash

someone forget the high price...you can get a penal with miniatombombs, 6 model squads for the same price...while pio at other faction cost mostly under 200mp

Yeah, the high price of FREE at start.

AT rifle is weaker than panzershrek

That is not buff, just make them worse

also there is no need to AT satchel

just lowering the price is enough (90->70)

Hence two of them.

A Sturmpioneer with a single Panzershreck loses its AI competency, can scare off Super Lights, midly irritate light vehicles and isn't very scary to mediums up.

A Sturmpioneer with two AT rifles poses a similar threat to Light Vehicles, and Button synergises strongly with the Raketenwerfer and JPIV against heavier targets.

60muni 3ppsh vs 45muni 5 mp40, RA bonus, grenades

ppsh cons dont have grenade&smoke

cost effective? if u want "cost effective", use all range weapon mp44

mp40 dps is not low, so what do u want? buff more dps? make them sprint?

Thompson is best, i agree

but thompson is too expensive and "not good cost effective" Compared to ppsh cons u said(no RA bonus idiot airbornes and have no utility skill poor expensive rangers, 90 muni 4 thompson or 70 muni 2 thompson for cav)

is it trash? no


MP40 also not trash

I mean, I actually think volks with MP40 not bad but Ass Grenadiers are fucking garbage. So I think it's not the weapon, but the unit.

60muni 3ppsh vs 45muni 5 mp40, RA bonus, grenades

Conscript also get hit the ground and conscript are stronger because they have 3 mosins and 3 PPsh, they would be weaker if they got 6 PPsh.

MP40 also take up all weapon slots while conscripts keep their slot.

ppsh cons dont have grenade&smoke
..

The grenade is for is actually a downgrade because the combination of the flame grenade and smoke grenade was considered to be too powerful, so do not try to present as a buff.

PPsh Conscript do not need smoke because the come ourah similar to assault grenadiers.

Let me explain this another way, for your next 2 game try in one to spam MP40 VGs and for the next to spam PPsh conscripts and tell me which one you won.

I mean, I actually think volks with MP40 not bad but Ass Grenadiers are fucking garbage. So I think it's not the weapon, but the unit.

i agree ass gren is trash

lets see his vet

vet 1 : RA -10%, sprint recharge time -25%
vet 2 : cooldown -25%, RA -29%
vet 3 : accuracy +40%, grenade assault range +25%

his vet is not bad

but in vet 0, he dont have any other RA bonus

I think it is better to give him 5% of RA bonus in vet 0 and reduce vet 2 RA bonus(-29% -> -24%)

AT rifle is weaker than panzershrek

That is not buff, just make them worse

also there is no need to AT satchel

just lowering the price is enough (90->70)

it's funny like every allie player satchels abuse and fear of it the axis player got something similar .... and AT rifles would be a buff..cause schrecks misses mostly everytime u try to hit somehting except in close combat....one shot and must mostly retreat vs most allie tank. the rifles can shot from far range and an AT satchel would be good vs dive ins...like other AT satchels from USF and sov

If you want to have shrecks removed and AT rifle instead, you can have sticky satchel.

If you meant regular one, what abuse? You'd have to be deaf, blind and have about 2 APM to not avoid it 100% of the time.

You might want to learn the difference between "abuse" of something and you being horribly bad.

oh boi---you try it evertime, right? But i can repeat me evertime..maybe you will undertand it ...in some years:

once more...ONLY for YOU:

> satchels are very effective..even in high rank games vs the best players
> AT Satchels are much more effective ...even in high ranks vs the best players

oh boi---you try it evertime, right? But i can repeat me evertime..maybe you will undertand it ...in some years:

once more...ONLY for YOU:

> satchels are very effective..even in high rank games vs the best players
> AT Satchels are much more effective ...even in high ranks vs the best players

No, they're not. They are a one in a few hundred chance of wiping a squad for a normal satchel, and the AT stachel is just a worse AT grenade in the majority of cases it gets thrown. If it gets thrown at all.

No, they're not. They are a one in a few hundred chance of wiping a squad for a normal satchel, and the AT stachel is just a worse AT grenade in the majority of cases it gets thrown. If it gets thrown at all.

dude. noone (not many) use satchel to wipe units. its the 45muni atombomb to kill every bunker or building.

And if you would ook the last tournements...AT satchels was very succesfully..much more in teamgames.

Go on and look

So... satchel does exactly what it was meant to do and its op now?
Pull your head out of your rear please.

So... satchel does exactly what it was meant to do and its op now?
Pull your head out of your rear please.

You are the guy which bring the the "op" in this discussion, not me. I only said that is funny that AT satchels ok on allie side..but you need only thinking about to give them on stpios ...allie fanbois come a sec later cry it is not needed.

You are the guy which bring the the "op" in this discussion, not me. I only said that is funny that AT satchels ok on allie side..but you need only thinking about to give them on stpios ...allie fanbois come a sec later cry it is not needed.

Yes, AT satchels on allied side is ok.

If one side has weaker infantry AT, it gets better supplemental abilities.

That's how balance works.

AT satchels are OK on the Soviet because they don't have fucking panzer Shreks. You have to be actually stupid to not see the balance problem in being able to snare a tank and kill it in 1 shot.not run of the mill stupid either, like 8 generations of inbreeding stupid. The satchels primary goal is to prevent pushing and to give AT Infantry the punch against harder targets that they can't otherwise pen. The Shrek, like piats and zooks fire instantly and deliver enough damage to be a threat of snarling instantly all by themselves so such a tool is not necessary. The AT satchel is OK on Soviet only.

I mean. Americans can also get one on a decent AI squad. I don't hold that it is only the snare/rocket that would break it. But OKW and OST already have all of the heaviest anti tank options going and their vehicles generally win in the longer range engagements. Heavy hitting push deterrants are not needed on their side.

Yes, AT satchels on allied side is ok.

If one side has weaker infantry AT, it gets better supplemental abilities.

That's how balance works.

are you seriuos? This days mostly every allie blobb run around with pitas/ PTRS/ zooks...mostly 4-6 on the count.
this blobbs are more cancer than axis blobbs where you have 2 schrecks on pgrens(very expansive) with AT weapons which misses so much on far and mid range...its not funny..

2 zooks/ piats > 2 schrecks (except close combat/ not moving tanks)

Back on topic,

I think the Feuresterm or Firestorm, whatever you call it. Is not a very attractive commander either. I think the massive barrage it gets at the end should be replaced with a much cheaper incendiary barrage like the Soviets/Brits/Wehrmecht.

I hate how every big airstrike call in for the OKW is REALLY expensive. It's often very good, but it's a lot more helpful to have it be 100-150 munitions than 200-300 (cause who want's to use an ability 1-2 times a match?!). When OKW are munitions heavy already with squad upgrades, mines, etc.

Personally, I find the Truck quite good. It provides reinforcement and an accuracy buff. Letting it heal as well might be a bit much. Maybe it can drop med kits like the new scout car 221 or whatever.

I'd slap a recon in here too honestly, not enough OKW doctrines have recon and it would pull people away from going Special Operations constantly because most OKW doctrines dont see a lot of use in team games due to how insanely good the flare is (But that's a whole other topic).

I would possibly look at how you need an ISG for this doctrine, maybe throwing some flavour into the mechanized side. Like Puma getting an incendiary shot (like the Wehrmecht sniper). That way you can open up either tech and not feel paralyzed. Puma would be good light AT and be able to throw down some incendiary shots on MG's and entrenched foes. While still remaining a vehicle which is vunerable and less abusable late game.

I find the ISG barrages are kind of garbage. But flames across the board was nerffed unless it's coming from a vehicle it feels.

The MP40's on Volks don't feel very good. This is due to the games structure really. Allies are designed to do more damage up close for most of their infantry. Axis are suppose to cut them down enough so it's managable when they do reach you (ideally). So having mp40's when fighting Rangers, Shocks, it's terrifying. But I get it, they would be flankers, they get smoke and real nades. It's just they feel.. weak. I don't know how to fix that without screwing it up. But I never make mroe than 1 squad w/ the M40's, cause STG44's are too good.


To summarize or TLDR

-Assault Package needs some love. Maybe more survivability somehow.

-Throw Recon in here somehow

-Rocket Barrage is too expensive, give it a cheaper, weaker alternative you can spam instead of having to save up for something easily avoided.

-Incendiary Munitions which gives the ISG ability to barrage, give a shot that the Puma can use to throw some flames around making it viable to go for 2 openings rather than needing the Battlegroupa to make this doctrine effective. Perhaps you could throw these munitions around more, maybe give Obers a different kit too? Allow Sturmpios or Volks to set up incendiary mines for infantry? I feel the incendiary munitions is VERY weak currently.

-Flammpanzer 38 Hetzer, seems kinda weak. It's nowhere near int he same class as the KV8. But then again the KV8, a Wehrmecht Pz4 (command tank variant?) with a flamer may be a decent idea? It has a turret, just remove blitz from it so you don't have super sonic flamer tanks.


-Flame Tank (turret)
-Assault Package buffed
-Incendiary munitions on more than ONE unit
-Recon
-Opel Blitz Truck (can drop med kits)
-Rocket Barrage (weaker and smaller)

....
Personally, I find the Truck quite good. It provides reinforcement and an accuracy buff. .
...

There is no accuracy buff, only reload.