Tiger PzKpfw VI

Let me preface by saying I'm a mediocre (as you can tell by my winrate ), but passionate player. More so as of the December 2018 patch. I think the community dev team has done a better job balancing the game than Lelic has in the last 5 years.

With that out of the way, I'd like to hear the active communities opinion the Tiger. Personally, it comes down to a matter of cost efficiency. For 640 manpower and 230 fuel, it's AT capability feels lackluster compared to its closest competitor, the IS-2 (640mp 230f). Granted, it has significantly better AI due to the superior dps of german pintle/front MG's, but I find it plainly inferior as an infantry support tank to the base Churchill. It has far less surviveability (unless you're rocking Panzer Commander), whilst the slightly better AT doesn't make up for the extra 70 fuel cost. Why save up for a tiger when you can just get a panther and have resources to spare? In my experience the Tiger's greatest value comes in it's utility as a comeback tool in 1v1 or 2v2's. Even then, the decision to delay a Panther in favour of a Tiger will put you at the mercy your opponent for as long as you don't have it.

From a design perspective, I understand the role of the Tiger as a heavy generalist tank, and that to bring it's gun in line with the IS-2's AT whilst potentially reducing its AI may make it feel as though it lacks an identity of it's own. It may simply be a product of the current meta, where soviet SU-85's and to a lesser extent Jacksons and Firefly's are both ubiquitous and effective. Thus, I propose a small buff to it's frontal armour, or a slight decrease to fuel and mp cost (600mp 215f?).

In the right hands I have no doubt the Tiger can be effective, and I fully acknowledge this could purely be a l2p issue, which is why I want to hear what everyone else thinks.

* I wish I had some updated unit values to be more scientific about this, but I can't find a full list on this patch, and the Extractors on the "extracting statistics" guide (https://www.coh2.org/guides/11637/extracting-statistics-guide) are dead links. If anyone has a full spreadsheet or a different method lemme know in the comments, cheers.

** Playercard should be visible, linked my steam ID to my profile but if it's missing lemme know, cheers again.

The problem is with the META of AT and mobile AT that make it over-shadowed. The lack of other allied med pen and their reliability being shit often lends allied players to focus/opt to picking a TD rather than just holding onto Med tanks all game.

This by no means makes the Tiger I bad but like the IS-2 and Pershing its better to opt for two tanks rather than one in many cases late game.

It has horrible AI compared to other heavy tanks

It has horrible AI compared to other heavy tanks

You realize this is about Tiger, not Kind Tiger and IS-2?

Tigers AI is a complete beast, only Pershing has it better, but pershing sacrifices a lot of HP for the sake of firepower.

i personally think tiger is completely fine as where it is. Only issue it faces at least in teamgames is tank destroyer spam, but that is one of only few things allies have left in 4v4. In 1v1 it atleast its good.

Reduce veterancy requirement will be good option

Other is fine

Tiger could use +5 base range so it isn't completely helpless against kiting TDs. Rest of its stats are good.

The problem is with the META of AT and mobile AT that make it over-shadowed. The lack of other allied med pen and their reliability being shit often lends allied players to focus/opt to picking a TD rather than just holding onto Med tanks all game.

This by no means makes the Tiger I bad but like the IS-2 and Pershing its better to opt for two tanks rather than one in many cases late game.

i personally think tiger is completely fine as where it is. Only issue it faces at least in teamgames is tank destroyer spam, but that is one of only few things allies have left in 4v4. In 1v1 it atleast its good.

Exactly!

Teamgames are diffrent and they are often base on massive AT weapons from both sides. On 2s when Tiger hits the field there is at least 2-3 AT guns and 2 AT destroyers by opposite side. Not much you can do with it until it hits vet2(extra range) and finally can hit back their dedicated counters. It's old glory when it could be a game changing unit it passed long time ago but it doesn't mean it's useless. It's just more situational unit similar to KT.

From 2v2 perspective i would say with currect Tiger performance i should be simply cheaper.

I simply feel that heavy tanks shouldn't be limited to one unit on the field any longer.

In times where you have multiple Churchills, Comets, Panthers on the field and with the current TD meta I see no reason to restrict the use of heavy tanks.

This applies to the IS-2 as well.

The topic should be "should eastern heavy tanks be buffed" and not just tiger, IS-2 is hot garbage and Tiger is a beast compared to it

If tiger needs buffs this means that every other super heavy tank (i mean these with ~230 fuel price tag) needs it. And as long as heavy tanks are not tied to tech i dont think they should be buffed.

As a mainly allied player I must say that the Tiger I is the only heavy I respect.

I'm not fussed about KT's and I'm pissed if my allies waste fuel on an IS2.

That said I think a small range buff to help it fend off (but not counter) allied TD's would be good.

THEN can we please fix the KT, KV2, IS2, ISU152.

Tiger is good as is. Honestly, when I go allies I focus more on AT than medium tanks, especially in the 4v4s. Passed the 8min-15min mark you should expect to see the first of the medium to heavy tanks. It shouldn't be any surprise to axis players either. Axis has the best late game non-doctrinal in the game as is. If your tiger is being hit from a distance by ATGs then support it with infantry don't let it move on its own.

You realize this is about Tiger, not Kind Tiger and IS-2?

Tigers AI is a complete beast, only Pershing has it better, but pershing sacrifices a lot of HP for the sake of firepower.

Yes i realize that, Tigers AI is horrible since its splash is tiny combined with allied bigger squad count making it being absolutely no threat to infantry compared to IS2 that oneshots squads left and right, same with pershing who also have crazy accuracy while moving, decrewing AT guns with ease.

The only good thing for Tiger is its machine guns but you also have to pay munition for them and they are sustain dps not high alpha damage which is what a heavy tank want since they are slow and will get evaded by the enemy.

I think the tiger is the tits. It's got good accuracy and decent aoe and a great ROF. It's not going to wipe as often as the is-2 but it ain't going to miss as often either. Only problem with it is the stupid op TD meta going on right now.

Yes i realize that, Tigers AI is horrible since its splash is tiny combined with allied bigger squad count making it being absolutely no threat to infantry compared to IS2 that oneshots squads left and right, same with pershing who also have crazy accuracy while moving, decrewing AT guns with ease.

The only good thing for Tiger is its machine guns but you also have to pay munition for them and they are sustain dps not high alpha damage which is what a heavy tank want since they are slow and will get evaded by the enemy.

Its scatter makes it hit infantry extremely frequently...

AoE is to no longer have it 2 shot all of them.

TD meta shits on Heavies and buffing the armor won't help it since TDs will pen anyways. The reason the Tiger feels more lackluster than its allied counterparts is because axis doesn't have high pen 60 range tds.

Its scatter makes it hit infantry extremely frequently...

AoE is to no longer have it 2 shot all of them.

Which imo is better, I'll take consistency over random one shots anyday.

the Tiger feels more lackluster than its allied counterparts is because axis doesn't have high pen 60 range tds.

That's a good point. Some have suggested +5 range, on reflection that might be the best way to go. The real problem with the Tiger is you rarely get the 1st or even 2nd shot on enemy TD's. A generalist tank shouldn't outperform a TD at range for similar value, but a single vetted SU-85 can shred a Tiger for 95 less fuel.

I understand how it can feel lackluster when less expensive TDs pen every shot, but the Tiger is the golden standard of what heavies should be. Not yolo in tank that can solo enemy team weapons with no additional support, but the final piece to your army composition that can operate on its own with some regard, but has its designated counters as well.

The topic clearly says and only says "Tiger Pzkpfw VI", If anyone so desperetely need a thread for easter front heavy tank buffs, then make one.

With regards OP, the Tiger is not a problem, the problem its how easly its counters get into combat. IMO. If a cost reduction buff were in effect to reduce the timing of the tiger, i guess it would be nice. A cooldown duration extend would help to stop it being spammed, if that is a posible issue.