Conscript Utility

incorrect how long have you been playing this game that you state penals are the main line? its only once they received there AT sachels they became popular. but im not here to give a history lesson.

What on earth are you talking about.

Penals were the mainstay of the soviets for years. Oorah + Flamethrowes on a more durable Con Squad with semi auto rifles worked absolutely fine.

The flamethrower removal was a sad time. Then the change to AT rifles made them interesting again.


Them being strictly better conscripts is absolutely not new.

Oorah is phenomenal! Idk why anybody would want to spend 60mu for a 1 time upgrade that improves damage output and concentrates damage on a single model at a time when they could run a bit quicker for 20mu a pop and proceed to deal the same damage as always but maybe from cover. Some people think that's not enough to compensate paying the same as the enemy for less but those people are crazy!

YhEA BoI, COmPENsaTE...
First volks, now grens... this kind of discussions with no sense or whatsoever are very repetitive and are not even funny anymore.

Haters gonna hate.

No one really speaks for cons here...
/Thread

When penals were nerfed to the 270mp version they were really unpopular.

Cons are awful, they just don't do any meaningful damage and with their 1.09 target size they aren't all that tough to begin with, and that makes them sub-par for merge/crewing weapons too.
Let's just move whatever utility Cons have to Combat Engis, and then remove Cons from the game.
There you go, CEs are fixed, cons are fixed, and no more multiple mainlines for Sov.

Make an 'anvil sappers' style upgrade for cons, something like "advanced combat training" or use the 'frontoviki' idea that the campaign has at tier-4 that gives them an upgrade to stats and maybe 2 SVT rifles.

Not sure how that'd synergize with the PPSH package but whatever.

Honestly, this may be the best idea so far. Campaign-style global upgrade to infantry sounds neat
Say, after getting T3/4 (or a side tech) all Conscript squads (both on the field and in production) are replaced by Strelki (or whatever name you want to choose), with new name, new shield icon, Guards Mosins and with base target size reduced to 1, they could even have vet adjusted for the buff if they become too potent at vet 3.

So now you have a choice between faster sub-par units loaded with utility, with the possiblity of them being "promoted" to a much better unit later, or delayed, all around powerful infantry in the form of Penals

YhEA BoI, COmPENsaTE...
First volks, now grens... this kind of discussions with no sense or whatsoever are very repetitive and are not even funny anymore.

Haters gonna hate.

No one really speaks for cons here...
/Thread

Most people believe cons them self are fine until late game. That is where they fall short period.
Only snaring is their job then. Their utility becomes almost irrelevant, it doesnt scale.

Sandbags are gone in seconds. Merge in late game wont cost you the squad if your lucky. when throwing the molly, cons only get less wrecked at max vet or forced off before they can use it. Tripwires rarely used even less then ost med kits.

Oorah and at nade are the only 2 to remain usefull. But eat your munitions.
The other (good) utility is spread in doctrines.

40% acc buff on low acc to start with amounts to less vet buffs of other high accuracy units.
vet 3 0.71 recc acc only helps a bit vs acc buffs and ai upgrades of the enemy.
At vet 0 cons have no chance to compete in the late game. Other mains do due to ai upgrades.

I do agree with dark that a single payment off 60 muni weapon upgrade beats sandbags and muni per pop oorah and at nade combo in late game.

Just reduce the cost as the tiers get build

incorrect how long have you been playing this game that you state penals are the main line? its only once they received there AT sachels they became popular. but im not here to give a history lesson.

they became mainline thanks to 2 stepps being taken, they got buffed, so they were actual DPS squad that could fight at long range and scaled well despite lack of weapon upgrade and pretty much soft removal of
any kind of maxim play, therefore T2 viability from the game.

Penals are mainline for quite some time now and were already even pre AT satchel and PTRS inclusion, the latter was a step that finally unbound soviets from mandatory guards doctrine play.

If you claim someone doesn't know coh history, make sure you actually know your shit yourself.

Cons are awful, they just don't do any meaningful damage and with their 1.09 target size they aren't all that tough to begin with, and that makes them sub-par for merge/crewing weapons too.
Let's just move whatever utility Cons have to Combat Engis, and then remove Cons from the game.
There you go, CEs are fixed, cons are fixed, and no more multiple mainlines for Sov.

Remove the penal troops and distribute their abilities: give engineers explosive charge, give SVT-40 and PTRS to conscripts, SVT-40 and PTRS cannot be bought at the same time. Doctrine conscripts PTRS replaced by Bazooka

Or give the conscripts only SVT-40 and in T1 add: tank hunters, 4 people, AT min, camouflage

Remove the penal troops and distribute their abilities: give engineers explosive charge, give SVT-40 and PTRS to conscripts, SVT-40 and PTRS cannot be bought at the same time. Doctrine conscripts PTRS replaced by Bazooka

Or give the conscripts only SVT-40 and in T1 add: tank hunters, 4 people, AT min, camouflage

You don't fix cracked windshield in your car by removing wheels.

YhEA BoI, COmPENsaTE...
First volks, now grens... this kind of discussions with no sense or whatsoever are very repetitive and are not even funny anymore.

Haters gonna hate.

No one really speaks for cons here...
/Thread

Grens yes... And volks..... And rifles.... And Tommies... And sappers..... And RE.... all have the ability to greatly improve their firepower, and no, sprinting isn't enough to compensate for that, especially not at 20mu a pop. If oorah gave a RoF bonus or something (which would be cool) it could be enough but sprint alone is not. In the early game before weapon upgrades it does help level the field but falls off the instant the enemy starts arming themselves while continuing to be a strain on your munitions economy. This follows suit with what I was saying early about conscripts not scaling properly and paying more for less. Oorah could scale with vet, that would help. But it doesn't.i don't want cons to get a weapon upgrade but they need something because they are hot garbage at the moment

Your text..

Most people believe cons them self are fine until late game. That is where they fall short period.
Only snaring is their job then. Their utility becomes almost irrelevant, it doesnt scale.

Because they are meant to...
OMG ppl never learn

Grens yes... And volks..... And rifles.... And Tommies... And sappers..... And RE.... all have the ability to greatly improve their firepower, and no, sprinting isn't enough to compensate for that, especially not at 20mu a pop. If oorah gave a RoF bonus or something (which would be cool) it could be enough but sprint alone is not. In the early game before weapon upgrades it does help level the field but falls off the instant the enemy starts arming themselves while continuing to be a strain on your munitions economy. This follows suit with what I was saying early about conscripts not scaling properly and paying more for less. Oorah could scale with vet, that would help. But it doesn't.i don't want cons to get a weapon upgrade but they need something because they are hot garbage at the moment

I'd love to negotiate some terms, since i respect your ideas but not the way you write them.
Really, Cons do not scale well, we can agree for certain on that.
I dont like whinery posting. I do know cons have an uphill battle against other mainlines inf. The point is to keep out most of the unnecesary noise of problems in relations to other factions, otherwise units begin to powercreep and no one wants that.
Muni cost for cons could receive a little discount, also to take account the whole thread topic, unlock an ability for cons, to give them a little early/mid game boost, when they should be shining the most. Nowdays penals can do so much and so much simpler that is not smart neither useful to rely on cons.

I really want to be precise with my words: Cons need a buff, but comparing it is not the way.
Do not give them nondoc weapon upgrade, it breaks its original design.
Do not make cons a mustblob inf either, Even though they should be in pairs and with team weapons support.
Cons should be still a cheap inf, a cannon fodder, a dispensable troop. They are not the worst combatant inf and called conscript for no reason. Sadly, Lategame wise they should begin to fall, or become a diferent unit, based more on utility.

Being said that, i raise the following ideas, just a few of them should do the trick:
Make the doc ability Hit the Dirt! nondoc and available at vet1, and remove those tripwire flares. At least i dont understand why they still have it.
Make cons squads cheaper by each tech Tier build, or release a tech to make they really cheap. I dont care now its costs.
Give cons a cover buff when stationary, not a damage one like ostruppen or UKF rifles, this way sandbags become even more useful to hold ground.

Oh wait, this is the first time someone plays the cheap card saying volks are the problem. Yeah there are 5 threads for that, you can go cry yourself to sleep there.

Edit: Lets start to get some constructive discussions. If not Always the grass is greener on the other side, and this forum will not be other thing but toxic discussions of nonesense people bashishg each others heads

You literally critiqued people for "play[ing] the cheap card" (which just happens to be something that goes against your opinion) and called for "constructive discussions" in the same post? Don't cal for something you aren't willing to do for even one second.

You started the toxicity when you called for a ban on someone who said something you don't agree with.

Your text..
Because they are meant to...
OMG ppl never learn

If this was the case cons should have been cheaper from the start. Molly and at nade would not have been sidectech.

If this was the case cons should have been cheaper from the start. Molly and at nade would not have been sidectech.

Wait a moment, are you working on relic? Do you really know the prupose of cons and never told anyone?

You literally critiqued people for "play[ing] the cheap card" (which just happens to be something that goes against your opinion) and called for "constructive discussions" in the same post? Don't cal for something you aren't willing to do for even one second.

You started the toxicity when you called for a ban on someone who said something you don't agree with.

First: My opinion
Show Spoiler
If A has a problem, but B is fine, you dont say A is broken because of B. But hey, not everyone can undestrand simple logic...
And the toxicity is mine because i point out the same persons boicotting every single thread with the same opinion with the same results... well what a strange world we live in.

Edit: you wanted "constructive discussion" but you are not trying neither.

Wait a moment, are you working on relic? Do you really know the prupose of cons and never told anyone?

Having a unit that is meant to fall short or be replaced in late game, do generaly not have equal or greater costs.

So how does that make cons expendable?

Cons have investments and doc abilities for late game.

But only 2 are relevant. And only 1 of those wich is doctrinal makes up for or buffs their lacking combat power in the late game.

Because they are meant to...
OMG ppl never learn

And you think that makes it fine?
Guess what?
Osttruppen were meant to be expendable early game capping only infantry for map control and stalling until real force arrives.
But lookie lookie where they are now, with reliable DPS, good vet and LATE GAME UPGRADE TO SCALE.

Would you look at that, its almost as if making an infantry unit only work in early game IS A BAD DESIGN AND DOES NOT WORK.

I dont like this distrofio guy, seems like he likes disagreeing because it makes him feel cooler than others.

Cons need a cost and reinforcement cost reduction, if they are to keep their current stats they gotta be like 220, 20 reinforce.

Otherwise I would like to see similar statline to volks with a proper late game upgrade weapon thats not a factional PPSH, im all for team DP-28.

please buff molly throw speed? half the squad wipes while dude is slowly trying to throw that molotov.

and the squad size being 1.09, is that really necessary? are they "OMG SO OP" that they need that penalty?

And you think that makes it fine?

I have never said that, but reading the others opinion is not your forte.

Guess what?
Osttruppen were meant to be expendable early game capping only infantry for map control and stalling until real force arrives.
But lookie lookie where they are now, with reliable DPS, good vet and LATE GAME UPGRADE TO SCALE.

Would you look at that, its almost as if making an infantry unit only work in early game IS A BAD DESIGN AND DOES NOT WORK.

The grass is always greener in the other side isnt it?
First volks, then grens and now even OSTRUPPEN are excuses...
Amazing.

And finally but not least important, are you implying that cons are benchmarked with ostruppen? I dont think so, and someone with so much experience in this game as you should know that very well

I dont like this distrofio guy, seems like he likes disagreeing because it makes him feel cooler than others.
...

Welcome to the forums then, people here disagree for the most stupid things, like "Cons must be great because they are russian" or "german were superior" BS.
Finally the game is hardly seeking balance and so much people with selfish intent do not care the game overall but its beloved faction.

Take a moment a read all the positive feedback i gave to OP, later lets discuss if im the bad one here