Ostwind

From my OKW Overhaul thread:

• Improve AA capabilities so that it matches the OKW 251 Flak Halftrack
  
• Increase rate of fire on main gun. Vet 3 cooldown and reload reduction should be moved to vet 0.
  
• Increase penetration so it can effectively fight Allied light armor. Penetration increased to ~80/60/50 from 55/40/35.
  

(On the third point: due to low accuracy values it wouldn't instagib all lights but it would be certainly strong enough to kill them when out of position or to keep them at bay.)

Nice suggestion.

I think you're mistaken, they have identical weapons except the OKW has less scatter and better vet.

Ok that's what I meant, less scatter makes killing inf better and the accuracy bonus at vet 2 for the OKW one is absent from the Ost p4 which only gets armored skirts and better turret rotation.

In all of my games I have never seen a reason to choose Ostwind instead of PIV (1v1 games) or instead of rushing T4 (2v2 games). The only reason to really build an Ostwind is to swiftly get rid of planes in case your enemy spams them. Even then one 222 and some pintle mounted MG42s were enough in 1v1 games or 222 + Flak HT from OKW ally in 2v2 games.

I'll start by buffing AA chances and turret rotation (so it can actually shoot at the target).

Giving suppression to the hull MGs would be a buff or a nerf? Put it basically at old 2 stacking bulletins levels of suppression.

Oh when you said they both worked the same I assumed you meant that they both worked the same ( which isn't the case). What exactly did you mean?

They both require to be stopped to work properly. Ostwind doesn't perform on the move and when you use it as it has been designed for (stationary), it works perfectly fine. That's why I say we could add a setup time for the Ostwind that would probably help people to use it to its maximum potential.

Now Pz4 is simply too good vs infantry and medium tanks. There is absolutely no reason to build either a Stug or an Ostwind when hitting T3 as Ostheer.
I mean, it never cross my mind when I play Ostheer to build anything else than a Pz4 since it is superior/equal to the sherman, T34 and Cromwell. And that's probably the same feeling for anybody playing Oshteer since everyone basically rush for the Pz4.

And buffing reasonably the Ostwind isn't going to change this issue. If you look a the responses given here, many people want the Ostwind be able to deal with LVs and LTs. People want a Pz4 kind that comes earlier (because cheaper) but still able to fight his way vs anything on the field.
If we give some reasonable buff to the Ostwind, nobody will use it because the Pz4 will still be a better choice because of its versatility being good vs tank and infantry.
Look at the Stug, everyone stopped using it the moment it went from OP to what it is today, which is still really good tank destroyer. So that's what is going to happen to the Ostwind, or you buff it to a certain OPness and everyone will use it, or everyone will still prefer the Pz4.

NB: I'm perfectly fine with buffing Ostwind AA performance.

Rate of Fire, maybe a bit scatter rework, little bit more hp, so it can win vs a t70 at least

Rate of Fire, maybe a bit scatter rework, little bit more hp, so it can win vs a t70 at least

Here is the problem:
if the unit has long scatter it will be useless vs infantry due to Small AOE if the unit has sort scatter it will be useless vs vehicles since it will collide.

There is no reason to reinvent the wheel here, simply change the weapon to work with accuracy similar to Centaur and it will be both useful vs infantry and vs Vehicles.

Or increase the accuracy so it can hit vehicles and its AOE slightly.

Make the Ostwind a better tank for countering blobs to do this add ether suppression or more range (maybe both). This stops the tank being a pure DPS weapon like the centaur or brumbar lowering the number of wipes.

I think its pretty good against lights but I wouldn't mind a more accurate shot.

Like the centaur (but with lower ROF) It tends to clip the ground half the time.

They both require to be stopped to work properly. Ostwind doesn't perform on the move and when you use it as it has been designed for (stationary), it works perfectly fine. That's why I say we could add a setup time for the Ostwind that would probably help people to use it to its maximum potential.

Now Pz4 is simply too good vs infantry and medium tanks. There is absolutely no reason to build either a Stug or an Ostwind when hitting T3 as Ostheer.
I mean, it never cross my mind when I play Ostheer to build anything else than a Pz4 since it is superior/equal to the sherman, T34 and Cromwell. And that's probably the same feeling for anybody playing Oshteer since everyone basically rush for the Pz4.

And buffing reasonably the Ostwind isn't going to change this issue. If you look a the responses given here, many people want the Ostwind be able to deal with LVs and LTs. People want a Pz4 kind that comes earlier (because cheaper) but still able to fight his way vs anything on the field.
If we give some reasonable buff to the Ostwind, nobody will use it because the Pz4 will still be a better choice because of its versatility being good vs tank and infantry.
Look at the Stug, everyone stopped using it the moment it went from OP to what it is today, which is still really good tank destroyer. So that's what is going to happen to the Ostwind, or you buff it to a certain OPness and everyone will use it, or everyone will still prefer the Pz4.

NB: I'm perfectly fine with buffing Ostwind AA performance.

Whuut? its not too good ... its the only thing u got when u go T3 and u want AI....BECAUSE Ostwind sucks!

U play Axis and the enemy is spamming/blobbing inf u have 2 Lategame Tanks P4 and Brum....
the Whole T3 is messed up because of the Allied TDplay. The stug especially ...

Ost suffers also from the fact, that the allied Inf At options are much better. The Ostwind as an AI Unit faces 6 Man groups with with double Zooks/Ptrd.

It must make more dmg against Inf too actualy stop something... And maybe a ability that give u AP rounds against LV, something like the MG42 stuff

Buff it's AI and maybe increase cost to compensate. Right now I never get it in 1v1 because of the reasons Theo stated - it's an AI tank but PZ4 is good enough at AI that it's almost always better/safer just to get that and also have the flexibility to deal with tanks. Until it can better punish players who go heavy infantry spam than a PZ4 can then it'll never see much use.

It's only 20 more fuel for a p4, less than a minute of income.

'nuff said.

It's only 20 more fuel for a p4, less than a minute of income.

'nuff said.

ostwind is 90 no?

ostwind is 90 no?

100 last time I've checked.

100 last time I've checked.

no wonder it's garbage....

100 last time I've checked.

It's been 90 since DBP. Centaur's 100.

I checked, it is 90 now. Still not worth it.

HA. cough* ahem. Yes I thought so.

Whuut? its not too good ... its the only thing u got when u go T3 and u want AI....BECAUSE Ostwind sucks!

U play Axis and the enemy is spamming/blobbing inf u have 2 Lategame Tanks P4 and Brum....
the Whole T3 is messed up because of the Allied TDplay. The stug especially ...

Ost suffers also from the fact, that the allied Inf At options are much better. The Ostwind as an AI Unit faces 6 Man groups with with double Zooks/Ptrd.

It must make more dmg against Inf too actualy stop something... And maybe a ability that give u AP rounds against LV, something like the MG42 stuff

That's pretty much the same for all factions. Or the Ostwind becomes a monster that overshadow the Pz4, or you'll always pickup the Pz4 first for its versatility even if it deal less damage to infantry.

Making it cheaper and suppressing from the get go wouldn't make it somewhat viable?