Today I got thinking about the sad concept that the wehrmacht Riegel mine see basically no use, because it's in a faction that already has great AT mines and it has to be deployed by a vehicle that generally has a pretty limited time slot.
In my 1000+ hours I have never once planted a Riegel or felt the need for it, which got me thinking that there might be another way to implement it, which could revitalize some ostheer commanders even more.
What I was thinking was that the Riegel should become a vet 3 ability for the doctrinal 250 halftrack in the current doctrines that has this and then all commanders with the doctrinal Riegel should get a more useful ability/call-in instead.
This would still make the Riegel a rare sight, but not completely unheard of and some of the almost absolete doctrines with the Riegel mine might be spiced up so we would see them more often.
I know that at this stage in the game it's most likely an impossible request, but what do you guys think about it in terms of balance and variation?
Dicuss.
Showerthoughts on the Riegel mine
26 Jan 2019, 19:00 PM
#1
Posts: 606
26 Jan 2019, 19:11 PM
#2
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Well we promoted m6 AT mines on the m20 so why not add more frustrating mechanics that can instantly lose you the game 
26 Jan 2019, 19:38 PM
#3
Posts: 606
Well we promoted m6 AT mines on the m20 so why not add more frustrating mechanics that can instantly lose you the game
By being a vet 3 ability on a doctrinal vehicle in a faction that already has insanely strong AT mines, I really don't think this suggestion will make for a gamebreaking experience or promote a new cancer strat
26 Jan 2019, 19:40 PM
#4
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
By being a vet 3 ability on a doctrinal vehicle in a faction that already has insanely strong AT mines, I really don't think this suggestion will make for a gamebreaking experience or promote a new cancer strat
Oh I read it wrong. I thought u wanted to make it nondoc and still on the 251 instead of 250. We should make it nondoc though, for balance reasons cause m20 has it
26 Jan 2019, 19:43 PM
#5
Posts: 606
Oh I read it wrong. I thought u wanted to make it nondoc and still on the 251 instead of 250. We should make it nondoc though, for balance reasons cause m20 has it
I don't really see a reason for that since USF dosen't have any real non-doc mines other than the pooper-mine wich can barely slow down a scout car.
But the main reason for my suggestion would be to free up some doctrinal choices, so the other part is certainly negotiable
26 Jan 2019, 19:50 PM
#6
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Voting for bundling vet 3 Riegel with AT-rifles for Grenadiers. 
26 Jan 2019, 19:57 PM
#7
Posts: 186
The Riegels are pretty useful, often used in lategame teamgames if the opposing team doesn't use minesweepers or uses them not good. I think the Riegelmine could be seen more often if not only the 251 but also the 222 could plant them so you still would be a bit limited and cannot skip t2 (wouldn't make great sense in the 2 doctrines anyway) and have to keep either a light vehicle alive throughout the game or could rebuild a single light vehicle if you want a forward reinforcement position or light antiair support.
26 Jan 2019, 20:01 PM
#8
Posts: 626 | Subs: 1
I think the Riegelmine could be seen more often if not only the 251 could plant them
This
26 Jan 2019, 20:02 PM
#9
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
The 251 has a clear animation when it's planting a Riegel, the 222 doesn't. Not saying that can't be implemented.
26 Jan 2019, 20:06 PM
#10
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
I don't really see a reason for that since USF dosen't have any real non-doc mines other than the pooper-mine wich can barely slow down a scout car.
But the main reason for my suggestion would be to free up some doctrinal choices, so the other part is certainly negotiable
USF mines are really great for their price. They're like near impossible to see, 10 munis, and really spamable. Sure they don't cause engine crit, but they do their part
26 Jan 2019, 20:13 PM
#11
Posts: 606
USF mines are really great for their price. They're like near impossible to see, 10 munis, and really spamable. Sure they don't cause engine crit, but they do their part
You're not wrong. I almost always use them, but I also recognize that their main utility unlike other mines is not to kill the vehicle running over it, but to stop it from flanking or chasing down a wounded vehicle.
26 Jan 2019, 20:17 PM
#12
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
I don't really see a reason for that since USF dosen't have any real non-doc mines other than the pooper-mine wich can barely slow down a scout car.
The new RE mine is actually super awesome, I've been using it a lot lately.
- 10 muni, you can put them everywhere
- 8 second stun that reduces speed and rotation by 50% and makes it lose a lot of momentum
- 80 damage, a normal mine does 200 for 30 muni. Fairly effective for the low price in raw damage
- they do enough damage to medium tanks that you can immediately faust them and snare
- people underestimate them and don't think to sweep
- if they do sweep it's tiny and hard to see
- they plant incredibly fast, you can place them far forward with REs
- if a vehicle hits it in the FoW, it is effectively "scouted"
Big problem with them is that the stun duration doesn't reset if they hit multiple mines.
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Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
26 Jan 2019, 20:21 PM
#13
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
The new RE mine is actually super awesome, I've been using it a lot lately.
- 10 muni, you can put them everywhere
- 8 second stun that reduces speed and rotation by 50% and makes it lose a lot of momentum
- 80 damage, a normal mine does 200 for 30 muni. Fairly effective for the low price in raw damage
- they do enough damage to medium tanks that you can immediately faust them and snare
- people underestimate them and don't think to sweep
- if they do sweep it's tiny and hard to see
- they plant incredibly fast, you can place them far forward with REs
- if a vehicle hits it in the FoW, it is effectively "scouted"
Big problem with them is that the stun duration doesn't reset if they hit multiple mines.
Don't forget:
- Bundling 4 in a square formation will kill a 222 or 251.
26 Jan 2019, 21:57 PM
#14
Posts: 606
The new RE mine is actually super awesome, I've been using it a lot lately.
- 10 muni, you can put them everywhere
- 8 second stun that reduces speed and rotation by 50% and makes it lose a lot of momentum
- 80 damage, a normal mine does 200 for 30 muni. Fairly effective for the low price in raw damage
- they do enough damage to medium tanks that you can immediately faust them and snare
- people underestimate them and don't think to sweep
- if they do sweep it's tiny and hard to see
- they plant incredibly fast, you can place them far forward with REs
- if a vehicle hits it in the FoW, it is effectively "scouted"
Big problem with them is that the stun duration doesn't reset if they hit multiple mines.
Allright Allright I apologize
The mines are not bad and as mentioned I use them myself. The reason I called them pooper mines is to mimic what Edd80Hertz do during streams. I do stand by my point that they are generally more defensive and to disrupt pushes rather than finishing off vehicles, because that's my personal experience.
But either way I don't think we have to go much further down that rabbithole
26 Jan 2019, 22:46 PM
#15
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
I don't really see a reason for that since USF dosen't have any real non-doc mines other than the pooper-mine wich can barely slow down a scout car.
..
Out of the 8 USF commanders only 3 do not have access to 30 munition mines and 1 one the 2 has 1 hit snares...
27 Jan 2019, 06:26 AM
#16
Posts: 284 | Subs: 1
The doctine mines on rifleman is good except plant timing, Assault engineer one is fine because player always spam AE by the way LULz.
27 Jan 2019, 09:49 AM
#17
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The doctine mines on rifleman is good except plant timing, Assault engineer one is fine because player always spam AE by the way LULz.
Imo all "constructs" from non engineer units should be even slower.
In the case of mines it should simply also be available to R.E. or even better the ability should give sand bag and mines to R.E. and fighting position wire to riflemen.
27 Jan 2019, 09:57 AM
#18
Posts: 177
Out of interest, what vehicles do Riegels actually kill that Tellers can't?
27 Jan 2019, 10:16 AM
#19
Posts: 606
Out of the 8 USF commanders only 3 do not have access to 30 munition mines and 1 one the 2 has 1 hit snares...
Don't you mean the other way around? Mechanized no longer get ass engi drivers, so IIRC it's only armor, hvy cav and infantry who get mines. Or do tactical support still get ass engis in the M5? Because then I guess it's 4 for 4 allthough the last one is a late and a hella expensive way to get non-doc mines.
Out of interest, what vehicles do Riegels actually kill that Tellers can't?
It immobilizes the vehicle
27 Jan 2019, 10:19 AM
#20
Posts: 177
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