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COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » Convince me that it's a bad idea with a 1 sniper limit

Convince me that it's a bad idea with a 1 sniper limit

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Joshua85
21 Jan 2019, 21:23 PM
#1
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Posts: 606

Yup I'm writing this while I'm salty and tilted :rofl:

But seriously though, I've had four matches tonight where people have gone with at least two snipers at the same time. I've won some of them and lost others, but what they all had in common is that it's such an unfunny and annoying thing to fight against, especially for factions with small squad sizes.

I know that they take a lot of micro and are big investments, but honestly a-moving two snipers around the map is not that much more difficult and can take an enormous strain on the opponent with really agressive deep dives.

I would never dream of going double sniper because it sets you up for a really boring rigid play of plucking away opponents manpower at a low effort double rate.

After playing against this match after match after gardening match all night I really think they should have a limit of 1 on the field at the time for each player.

But perhaps I'm just spitting salt here :*(
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adamírcz
21 Jan 2019, 21:38 PM
#2
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Its not really bad, but I have an even better one

"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
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Baba
21 Jan 2019, 21:39 PM
#3
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Posts: 600

Ok but only if we limit machine guns and mortars, emplacements and bunkers aswell. Not to speak of elite infantry. Deal?
:luvCarrot:
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Joshua85
21 Jan 2019, 21:41 PM
#4
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Posts: 606

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jan 2019, 21:39 PMBaba
Ok but only if we limit machine guns and mortars, emplacements and bunkers aswell. Not to speak of elite infantry. Deal?


nope

Or I mean, it depends on what you think the limit should be and why.
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adamírcz
21 Jan 2019, 21:42 PM
#5
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Posts: 955

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jan 2019, 21:39 PMBaba
Ok but only if we limit machine guns and mortars, emplacements and bunkers aswell. Not to speak of elite infantry. Deal?


MG guns are effectively countered by mortars. Those are countered by moving mainlines, who in return get countered by MGs

Snipers are meant to be countered by LVs but those are absolutely useles against them
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
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Baba
21 Jan 2019, 21:42 PM
#6
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Posts: 600

Not to 1 each. Like 2 of each thing^^

"Snipers are meant to be countered by LVs but those are absolutely useles against them"

Em what? Ever seen a m20 chase down a sniper? Guess good ol Friedrich has a different opininion on that
:luvCarrot:
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Sander93
21 Jan 2019, 22:39 PM
#7
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Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

CoH2 is beyond saving sadly. There should have been better counters available, like the Jeep/Motorcycles in vCoH. There are too many snares available to risk diving anything more expensive than a Kubelwagen.


If there's ever going to be a CoH3, I would really like for snipers to be changed into 2-3 men recon squads with great sight range, camo and some utility but have no real combat power. Perhaps with a munitions-based sniping ability (like Brits Infantry Section in vCoH).

Recon should become an integral part of the game. Snipers that ignore the fundamental cover-based mechanics should no longer be part of the game.
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Vipper
21 Jan 2019, 22:49 PM
#8
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Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

I would suggest to actually change sniper, so that they do not kill infantry and do damage and only kill weapon crews.
:)
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Baba
21 Jan 2019, 22:56 PM
#9
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Posts: 600

I suggest we leave snipers the way they are
:luvCarrot:
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LoopDloop
21 Jan 2019, 23:39 PM
#10
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Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jan 2019, 21:42 PMBaba
Not to 1 each. Like 2 of each thing^^

"Snipers are meant to be countered by LVs but those are absolutely useles against them"

Em what? Ever seen a m20 chase down a sniper? Guess good ol Friedrich has a different opininion on that

If you really let a sniper get chased down by an M20 (which also only has 320 health with skirts) with mainline infantry that have the fastest and longest range snare in the game (and have it from the get go) you've messed up pretty bad.
Playercard of LoopDloop

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Serrith
22 Jan 2019, 00:26 AM
#12
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Posts: 783

Remove snipers ability to auto attack. Snipers have the ability to eliminate a single model for a small munitions cost(10-15) with a lengthy cooldown-30 seconds to a minute, reduced by vet. Give snipers shared veterancy. Reduce sniper cost to 120 mp and 3 supply, making them a cheap spotting unit for recon with limited on call combat capability.
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Joshua85
22 Jan 2019, 07:57 AM
#14
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Posts: 606

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2019, 00:26 AMSerrith
Remove snipers ability to auto attack. Snipers have the ability to eliminate a single model for a small munitions cost(10-15) with a lengthy cooldown-30 seconds to a minute, reduced by vet. Give snipers shared veterancy. Reduce sniper cost to 120 mp and 3 supply, making them a cheap spotting unit for recon with limited on call combat capability.


I suppose this could be a solution as well. But I think that a 1 man cap would work too. That way they could remain a strategically viable asset, but without the possibility to completely cripple a gren squad in a matter of seconds.
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Joshua85
22 Jan 2019, 07:58 AM
#15
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Posts: 606

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jan 2019, 21:42 PMBaba
Not to 1 each. Like 2 of each thing^^


Sounds great buddy. Go make a balance thread about that and we'll discuss it there :thumbsup:
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Finndeed
22 Jan 2019, 08:47 AM
#17
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Going for multiple snipers is annoying to face, but its 720mp into two small fragile units with limited versatility.

I think going for 2 snipers in this patch is actually a very bad idea with all the potent light vehicles and camo units in the game currently.

I think a lot of players get overly focused on the snipers and a desire to kill them outright.

I hate to say this and its very map dependent of course, but, i think this problem can be solved with some changes in play.
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Joshua85
22 Jan 2019, 09:06 AM
#18
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Posts: 606

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2019, 08:47 AMFinndeed
Going for multiple snipers is annoying to face, but its 720mp into two small fragile units with limited versatility.

I think going for 2 snipers in this patch is actually a very bad idea with all the potent light vehicles and camo units in the game currently.

I think a lot of players get overly focused on the snipers and a desire to kill them outright.

I hate to say this and its very map dependent of course, but, i think this problem can be solved with some changes in play.


You are no doubt completely right that this is a L2P issue and that it can be countered and beaten (and I often do).

However, my point is that much like old (and to some extend still existing) Sim City strategy could be countered, playing against it is a drag, requires somewhat low effort to pull off and generally reduce the enjoyment of playing the game.

I'm all for diverse opening and strategies and don't want to tie people down into a bottleneck strategies, but I honestly don't feel like the game would lose some truly enjoyable plays if more was done to weed out these "troll strategies".
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Osinyagov
22 Jan 2019, 09:22 AM
#19
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Core teching is something, that was designed for faction to be used in unlimited numbers. I agree about limits for doctrine units, but basic stuff (snipers too) should be limited only by popcap.

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Joshua85
22 Jan 2019, 09:26 AM
#20
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Posts: 606

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2019, 09:22 AMOsinyagov
Core teching is something, that was designed for faction to be used in unlimited numbers. I agree about limits for doctrine units, but basic stuff (snipers too) should be limited only by popcap.


I agree that it's not something that should be overdone, but technically non doctrinal limit allready applies to another unit - The KT.

And yes, I know that's an entirely different ball park, but I do feel like some things reward lazy play that let's you punch above your weight without much effort.

But overall I see the point that this argument could be made in many instances.
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