They cost the same as volks, who are overperforming for cost and manage to make volks look bad for the same price... If JLI had a snare you would never see volks again.
Citation needed.
The Overwatch Problem
14 Jan 2019, 02:33 AM
#41
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
Citation needed.
14 Jan 2019, 02:39 AM
#43
Posts: 1979
Really i dont? Well ill post it manually
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198032567729
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198032567729
14 Jan 2019, 05:55 AM
#44
Posts: 24
Can you guys wait until the new nerfed JLI come out before arguing about them again in every thread?
You don't.
Whenever someone says JLI are op
I grab my mug of allied fanboys tears and drink em
14 Jan 2019, 07:38 AM
#45
Posts: 44
Whenever someone says JLI are op
I grab my mug of allied fanboys tears and drink em
That's exactly the problem.
You look the other way when WM/OKW units are overpowered just so you can take a dump on allies.
14 Jan 2019, 08:07 AM
#46
Posts: 1979
Yes allies OP... JLI not OP....
Lets just disregard the GCS tournament and the clear JLI spam that occurs in almost every match because heil hitler...
whats next are we gonna claim that the nazis won ww2 #conspiracy?
Lets just disregard the GCS tournament and the clear JLI spam that occurs in almost every match because heil hitler...
whats next are we gonna claim that the nazis won ww2 #conspiracy?
14 Jan 2019, 08:49 AM
#47
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Claims allies OP but axis quite literally has a higher gcs wr than allies (except sov)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/83846/ac-2v2-statistics-wildcard-qt1-qt2-finals
14 Jan 2019, 09:18 AM
#48
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I do have a playercard you wehraboo check below the name...
(psst, it doesn't work if your steam profile is set to private)
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
14 Jan 2019, 10:18 AM
#49
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I do have a playercard you wehraboo check below the name...
JLI are OP... literally everyone else but you knows this
Claims allies OP but axis quite literally has a higher gcs wr than allies (except sov)
Why are you obsessing with "identifying wehraboos"? If we accept that they exist then "allied fanboys" also exist and since you seem to have no interest in identifying them you are probably one of them.
Now if "wehraboos" opinion in biased and should not be taken into account the same goes for "allied fanboys" and thus you opinion should not be taken into account either.
Do you see now how pointless what you are doing is and how it increased toxicity in this forum in an non constructive way?
PLS focus on what people actually write and NOT who they are, what they are or why they write their opinion.
14 Jan 2019, 10:49 AM
#50
Posts: 5279
Citation needed.
Comparing them to units in their price point (cons and grens) for 10mp extra they combine the best of both and retain neither of their drawbacks. They are more durable than grens and more combat capable than cons, they are able to build sandbags like cons while not having to pay any extras like grens for their snares and nades and weapon upgrade, they HAVE a weapon upgrade like grens and can also burn out buildings and cover like cons (and do it better too). All while being able to function independent of support like rifles.
#stalinwept
14 Jan 2019, 11:05 AM
#51
Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1
That's what?
800+ menpower just sitting there on a mortar?
How is that brit securing flanks when you have 3 to 5 more units due to axis inf being both, much cheaper and you having said 800+ mp in mobile force.
Are you talking about 3v3 and 4v4?
Because most certainly not 1v1 or 2v2.
on alliance of defiance and wood crossing 1 Pit can easily cover 2 VP and from that on the whole game evolves around that. and your army is on those 2 points anyway so no extra effort "sitting around" like you described. and with a hardcore lamer you get the most tiring, annoyig, rage inducing experiance as he needs (AND HERE IS THE POINT!!) half the clicks / APM which you need. And I've had dozens of games like this
14 Jan 2019, 11:08 AM
#52
Posts: 600
no wonder i have both maps vetoed. they suck in all aspects
14 Jan 2019, 12:23 PM
#53
Posts: 172
Permanently BannedI'm just wondering how they totally overlooked JLI's and this broken commander but hotfixed Soviet AT Artillery ASAP
Being a God is hard.
You are not me. Therefore you suck.
You are not me. Therefore you suck.
14 Jan 2019, 12:26 PM
#54
Posts: 600
"broken commander"...
14 Jan 2019, 12:32 PM
#55
Posts: 3260
Relic has a mistake it keeps making with its patches: it makes huge sweeping buffs in the last version of the testing mods which receive minimal feedback.
Pretty much all of the problem abilities were added in the 1.8 version of the patch: buffed Sector Assault, Anti-Tank Overwatch, 250 MP 1 CP JLIs.
Sector Assault and AT Overwatch are much easier to fix than JLIs, which are a more complex problem.
Pretty much all of the problem abilities were added in the 1.8 version of the patch: buffed Sector Assault, Anti-Tank Overwatch, 250 MP 1 CP JLIs.
Sector Assault and AT Overwatch are much easier to fix than JLIs, which are a more complex problem.
14 Jan 2019, 12:53 PM
#56
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I'm just wondering how they totally overlooked JLI's and this broken commander but hotfixed Soviet AT Artillery ASAP
Because AT Overwatch and Sector Assault were blatantly overpowered while unit balance like JLI and Assault Engineers is much more subtle. Also a big part of unit balance is that players need time to figure out counters to certain units or strats before being able to judge whether or not a unit is really OP, so you can't just go around instantly nerfing or buffing units a week after a patch introduced them.
14 Jan 2019, 19:44 PM
#57
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
Comparing them to units in their price point (cons and grens) for 10mp extra they combine the best of both and retain neither of their drawbacks. They are more durable than grens and more combat capable than cons, they are able to build sandbags like cons while not having to pay any extras like grens for their snares and nades and weapon upgrade, they HAVE a weapon upgrade like grens and can also burn out buildings and cover like cons (and do it better too). All while being able to function independent of support like rifles.
Why would we do that (compare them to cons or grens)? Cons are generally accepted to not be in the best spot (though I do havw my own feelings on the topic), and grens are kept relatively weak to compensate for osts stronger team weapons. Of course volks are stronger or more efficient than them. Cons and grens units generally occupy a different role in their faction than volks do, and make up a lower amount of the factions "power budget."
Compare volks to the other WFA mainlines which occupy a more similar role and have a more comparable power budget, and volks dont really overperform.
14 Jan 2019, 19:52 PM
#58
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Why would we do that (compare them to cons or grens)? Cons are generally accepted to not be in the best spot (though I do havw my own feelings on the topic), and grens are kept relatively weak to compensate for osts stronger team weapons. Of course volks are stronger or more efficient than them. Cons and grens units generally occupy a different role in their faction than volks do, and make up a lower amount of the factions "power budget."
Compare volks to the other WFA mainlines which occupy a more similar role and have a more comparable power budget, and volks dont really overperform.
There should be be one benchmark and that used to be grenadiers (and they should become once more).
Riflemen and Tommies where designed to be OP because of the limitation to support weapons (reverse Ostheer design), so VG should not be modeled after them.
Imo the insistence of keeping VGs and Penal so strong has cost the number of balance issues we have seen so far and has forced all the faction redesigns (and probably more to come).
Imo These changes should have been remove and the units should have been balanced around grenadiers.
VG would be in far better place if the ST44 where replaced by MP40 and their incendiary grenades swapped for a fragmentation one.
14 Jan 2019, 20:07 PM
#59
Posts: 5279
Why would we do that (compare them to cons or grens)? Cons are generally accepted to not be in the best spot (though I do havw my own feelings on the topic), and grens are kept relatively weak to compensate for osts stronger team weapons. Of course volks are stronger or more efficient than them. Cons and grens units generally occupy a different role in their faction than volks do, and make up a lower amount of the factions "power budget."
Compare volks to the other WFA mainlines which occupy a more similar role and have a more comparable power budget, and volks dont really overperform.
Volks are 30mp cheaper than their WFA counterparts and always have access to mgs and AT as well as early game shock infantry and quite possibly the best AI squad in the game later (Obers should come earlier however) there is no conceivable reason for them to dumpster fuck 10mp cheaper cons and be comparable to 30mp more rifles and Tommies all of whom need additional fuel, manpower and munitions investments in excess of volks to properly scale.
For their cost the exceed the performance they should be pegged at. If Ost grens are held back because of their team weapons why aren't volks held by their access to elite infanty that their WFA counterparts lack? Rifles have to be good because that's it (unless they decided to do something more with officers)
Volks are a lazy,one infantry to do everything you need design without a do everything price.
And they somehow made JLI more attractive...
#stalinwept
14 Jan 2019, 20:42 PM
#60
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
Volks are 30mp cheaper than their WFA counterparts and always have access to mgs and AT as well as early game shock infantry and quite possibly the best AI squad in the game later (Obers should come earlier however) there is no conceivable reason for them to dumpster fuck 10mp cheaper cons and be comparable to 30mp more rifles and Tommies all of whom need additional fuel, manpower and munitions investments in excess of volks to properly scale.
For their cost the exceed the performance they should be pegged at. If Ost grens are held back because of their team weapons why aren't volks held by their access to elite infanty that their WFA counterparts lack? Rifles have to be good because that's it (unless they decided to do something more with officers)
Volks are a lazy,one infantry to do everything you need design without a do everything price.
And they somehow made JLI more attractive...
Thats just presenting facts that only prove your point while omitting those that dont. Okw always has access to hmgs and at guns? Doesnt ukf have the exact same thing? As for usf, thats pretty much been addressed in the redesign - if you need the at gun, you can very realistically get the at gun, and vice versa for the mg. Id say sturms are besides the problem of volks, and are also the way they are because of faction design. Obers exist specifically because volks DONT scale and rifles + tommies do (and also to fill the long range infantry niche).
(Side) Teching costs are a part of faction design and are generally not too relevant in an explicit discussion of whether an individual unit is too cost efficient.
As I said, obers exist because volks ARE held back in their scaling.
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