Want to make more "elite troop"
give commander tank buff to Tiger ace
accuracy buff or cooltime buff or something(to all my unit)
That makes reinforce own concept and quite good reward for heavy penalty
And dont forget decrease penalty
800/150 -> 700/150
fuel penalty -90% -> -30%
manpower penalty -25% -> -10%
Replace Tiger Ace with King Tiger for elite troops?
28 Dec 2018, 06:02 AM
#21
Posts: 810
28 Dec 2018, 13:43 PM
#22
Posts: 40
I really like the idea especially to bring more value towards the elite troops doctoring.
However, what about just
removing the penalty resource on call in and lower CP and keep the tiger ace ?
However, what about just
removing the penalty resource on call in and lower CP and keep the tiger ace ?
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Playercard of Schildkroete |
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28 Dec 2018, 14:59 PM
#23
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I really like the idea especially to bring more value towards the elite troops doctoring.
However, what about just
removing the penalty resource on call in and lower CP and keep the tiger ace ?
Then there is zero reason to keep it ace all together as you're just asking for regular tiger now.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Dec 2018, 15:04 PM
#24
Posts: 310
I'm all for a KT for Ost. I might want to add that this all would have to include getting rid of the ressource penalty. That is broken game design. Being punished for keeping a unit alife isn't what this game is about.
Why should they remove it? You get a powerful vet 3 heavy tank. What do you want? Getting it at 0CP and cost set to 150 manpower and 5 fuel? You get a strong unit, you get punished for it, if you don't want it, don't field it. Not to mention that Ost has 3 choices for heavy tanks. Tiger Ace, Tiger and Elefant.
"L is for L Shaped Ambush"
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28 Dec 2018, 15:11 PM
#25
Posts: 3260
Why should they remove it? You get a powerful vet 3 heavy tank. What do you want? Getting it at 0CP and cost set to 150 manpower and 5 fuel? You get a strong unit, you get punished for it, if you don't want it, don't field it. Not to mention that Ost has 3 choices for heavy tanks. Tiger Ace, Tiger and Elefant.
Because a unit that penalizes you for preserving it is counterintuitive and flies against the design of the rest of the game. Just raise the price to what the Tiger Ace is actually worth.
28 Dec 2018, 15:16 PM
#26
Posts: 310
Because a unit that penalizes you for preserving it is counterintuitive and flies against the design of the rest of the game. Just raise the price to what the Tiger Ace is actually worth.
In this case, if you want the penalty to be removed, then remove the veterancy and just let it earn veterancy easier. Or even better, give it the ability to disembark the crew for repairs just like USF
"L is for L Shaped Ambush"
-Orion Training Group
-Orion Training Group
28 Dec 2018, 15:21 PM
#27
Posts: 3260
In this case, if you want the penalty to be removed, then remove the veterancy and just let it earn veterancy easier. Or even better, give it the ability to disembark the crew for repairs just like USF
I don't mind it being a Vet 3 tank on call-in. I don't mind it being a one-off call-in either. They're both interesting unique mechanics that work quite well.
The resource penalty, however, is a failed mechanic that's been progressively scaled back to the point where the Tiger Ace even has a fuel cost now.
They should just abandon it already and whack the cost up to 800 MP 300 FU or whatever the TA's really worth.
28 Dec 2018, 15:24 PM
#28
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Because a unit that penalizes you for preserving it is counterintuitive and flies against the design of the rest of the game. Just raise the price to what the Tiger Ace is actually worth.
In case you missed all the posts in this and previous threads about TA, you are NOT supposed to preserve it.
You are supposed to call it in to either seal the game or make a last stand.
If you want to preserve it, you want normal tiger, not TA.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Dec 2018, 15:27 PM
#29
Posts: 310
I don't mind it being a Vet 3 tank on call-in. I don't mind it being a one-off call-in either. They're both interesting unique mechanics that work quite well.
The resource penalty, however, is a failed mechanic that's been progressively scaled back to the point where the Tiger Ace even has a fuel cost now.
They should just abandon it already and whack the cost up to 800 MP 300 FU or whatever the TA's really worth.
This mechanic also existed in CoH1 where the King Tiger would drain your resources for 10 minutes (don't remember exactly) and then they would return to normal again. The few times i played Ost or OKW, i fielded Elefant and Jagdtiger and i strongly avoid Tiger Ace
"L is for L Shaped Ambush"
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28 Dec 2018, 15:38 PM
#30
Posts: 1097
I'd rather just face a buffed KT than a TA with all the irritating abilities.
28 Dec 2018, 15:56 PM
#31
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
In case you missed all the posts in this and previous threads about TA, you are NOT supposed to preserve it.
You are supposed to call it in to either seal the game or make a last stand.
If you want to preserve it, you want normal tiger, not TA.
Lol
28 Dec 2018, 16:11 PM
#32
Posts: 3260
In case you missed all the posts in this and previous threads about TA, you are NOT supposed to preserve it.
You are supposed to call it in to either seal the game or make a last stand.
If you want to preserve it, you want normal tiger, not TA.
And as I told you before, I understand the mechanic just fine. I just think it works badly in practice and should be ditched.
If your view is bad mechanics should be kept for the sake of it, then we just disagree.
This mechanic also existed in CoH1 where the King Tiger would drain your resources for 10 minutes (don't remember exactly) and then they would return to normal again.
I believe it was -100 manpower for five minutes. That mechanic functionally split the cost in half: you'd pay a chunk of manpower up front, and a chunk of manpower as a deficit.
However, it was timed, not tied to the vehicle's survival. That'd work fine for the Tiger Ace. The player that builds it isn't penalized for preserving it and the opponent isn't penalised for destroying it.
28 Dec 2018, 17:10 PM
#33
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
In case you missed all the posts in this and previous threads about TA, you are NOT supposed to preserve it.
You are supposed to call it in to either seal the game or make a last stand.
If you want to preserve it, you want normal tiger, not TA.
Just because it's always been this way doesn't mean we should get rid of it, since it is a bad and counterintuitive mechanic. I'd much rather see a normal call-in with either King Tiger or a Command Tiger that has some nice abilities.
The Tiger Ace is a stupid concept that is basically impossible to balance.
28 Dec 2018, 17:30 PM
#34
Posts: 40
Then there is zero reason to keep it ace all together as you're just asking for regular tiger now.
No. I’m suggesting a tiger ace with resource penalty removed on call in and/or lower CP
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28 Dec 2018, 19:33 PM
#35
Posts: 563
im not sure but would it work that there would be time period of limited resource gain when its deployed. It should not last entire time the tank is alive, rather set period that would make it actually be worth to preserve.
"Pain is almost euphoric sam!"
29 Dec 2018, 00:23 AM
#36
Posts: 3053
Because a unit that penalizes you for preserving it is counterintuitive and flies against the design of the rest of the game. Just raise the price to what the Tiger Ace is actually worth.
IMO the whole immediately vet3 concept is counterintuitive to the game design too. Veterancy bonuses should be earned, not just given out for a cost. It was eventaken off the infantry side of elite troops and usf rifle company because it was stupid. It annoys me that the thing is faster right out the gate than most mediums and reloads faster as well the same way a 3 second reload on Pershing just by paying more (hypothetically speaking) right out the gate would annoy me.
I actually like OP’s suggestion. That way the gist of having a powerful callin heavy arguably better than the regular tiger is preserved without the shitty-on-both-sides mechanics of the tiger ace.
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29 Dec 2018, 21:00 PM
#37
Posts: 3260
IMO the whole immediately vet3 concept is counterintuitive to the game design too.
In effect it has no veterancy, like a bunker.
31 Dec 2018, 07:36 AM
#38
Posts: 157
im not sure but would it work that there would be time period of limited resource gain when its deployed. It should not last entire time the tank is alive, rather set period that would make it actually be worth to preserve.
if i recall a patch sometime ago, the penalty last for 5 minutes.
TA was nerf several times over the years. Like katikof said, it was design as a last ditch/all in card. at which TA does its job a bit too good specially on 1v1. however on large team battles, his strength diminishes as they are more counters against him
31 Dec 2018, 09:49 AM
#39
Posts: 1392
I like the idea of King-Tiger for Ostheer. Maybe some other abilities and other vet and CP16. Should be better too balance.
1 Jan 2019, 16:18 PM
#40
Posts: 186 | Subs: 1
I like the idea of King-Tiger for Ostheer. Maybe some other abilities and other vet and CP16. Should be better too balance.
Why the Higher CP and other abilities though? All other heavy tanks come out at 13CP so I don't see no reason why this should be any different. Make it any higher then 13 and you will never see it because the match will always be over before players have the choice to use it (1v1) The KT is already balanced for price and performance against other heavy tanks so changing the abilities or the price will just throw a wrench in the game balance and a good functioning unit.
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