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moving the soviet sniper flare to vet 0

move sniper flare to vet 0
Option Distribution Votes
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75%
Total votes: 32
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22 Dec 2018, 10:37 AM
#1
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

what do you guys think of moving the soviet sniper flare to vet 0?

afaik the soviet sniper is inferior at killing 4 man squads than the ost sniper is at killing 6 man squads... this is understandable as ost is supposed to have the best support weapons... however the soviet sniper simply has no redeemable qualities to it ever since it was nerfed from its original 2 man size and has become vulnerable to lots of battlefield baddies (OP) JLI and the 221 scout car... giving it a vet 0 flare allows the soviet sniper to perform a more utilitarian role to the more combat oriented ostheer sniper...
22 Dec 2018, 10:58 AM
#2
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378

Gonna have to say no, flares already too good, and sniper being subject to balancing, if you move this to vet 0, it would become insanely broken?
22 Dec 2018, 11:00 AM
#3
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2018, 10:58 AMCresc
Gonna have to say no, flares already too good, and sniper being subject to balancing, if you move this to vet 0, it would become insanely broken?

well idk as of the moment the ost sniper owns the sov sniper in every concievable way... giving the sov sniper greater utility at the least shouldnt hurt
22 Dec 2018, 12:44 PM
#4
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 955

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2018, 11:00 AMgbem

well idk as of the moment the ost sniper owns the sov sniper in every concievable way... giving the sov sniper greater utility at the least shouldnt hurt

Well, the flare as a vet1 is much better than the Ost sniper vet 1ability, which is pretty much "kill one guy and stun the squad for 1 second, while paying an ammo fee for it"

BTW I wish all snipers were replaced, but its too late for that as it would make MGs and defensive plays OP
22 Dec 2018, 13:15 PM
#5
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2018, 10:37 AMgbem
what do you guys think of moving the soviet sniper flare to vet 0?

afaik the soviet sniper is inferior at killing 4 man squads than the ost sniper is at killing 6 man squads... this is understandable as ost is supposed to have the best support weapons... however the soviet sniper simply has no redeemable qualities to it ever since it was nerfed from its original 2 man size and has become vulnerable to lots of battlefield baddies (OP) JLI and the 221 scout car... giving it a vet 0 flare allows the soviet sniper to perform a more utilitarian role to the more combat oriented ostheer sniper...


Just like how OST Sniper is vulnerable to WC51, clown car, Bren gun carrier?

And I dont understand the logic behind how Soviet sniper is inferior at killing 4 man squads, than Ost killing 6 man squad.

You snipe a gren model, and the squad is only 75% effective.
You snipe a penis battalion model, and the squad is still 83-84% effective.

22 Dec 2018, 13:41 PM
#6
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



Just like how OST Sniper is vulnerable to WC51, clown car, Bren gun carrier?

And I dont understand the logic behind how Soviet sniper is inferior at killing 4 man squads, than Ost killing 6 man squad.

You snipe a gren model, and the squad is only 75% effective.
You snipe a penis battalion model, and the squad is still 83-84% effective.



penis batallion XD

but yeah i get the point...
22 Dec 2018, 13:48 PM
#7
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 955



Just like how OST Sniper is vulnerable to WC51, clown car, Bren gun carrier?

And I dont understand the logic behind how Soviet sniper is inferior at killing 4 man squads, than Ost killing 6 man squad.

You snipe a gren model, and the squad is only 75% effective.
You snipe a penis battalion model, and the squad is still 83-84% effective.


Because the Wehr sniper will snipe those 6 guys long before the Sov one can snipe 4

Besides, no snipers are vulnerable to any clown cars nor LVs. All will survive at least two full bursts while in no cover.
22 Dec 2018, 13:56 PM
#8
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979


Because the Wehr sniper will snipe those 6 guys long before the Sov one can snipe 4

Besides, no snipers are vulnerable to any clown cars nor LVs. All will survive at least two full bursts while in no cover.


actually i get the dynamic here... even if the sov sniper takes longer to kill the 4 man squad... a shot already takes off 75% of its firepower... since snipers have to move on the reload and not stay static the full advantage of the higher ROF for the OST sniper cannot be taken advantage of... especially with a penal build...

BUT

a conscript build is soo bad it cannot fully take advantage of this... i think cons need to be reworked with PPS-43 or go cheaper to some 220mp to become viable...
22 Dec 2018, 14:04 PM
#9
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571


Because the Wehr sniper will snipe those 6 guys long before the Sov one can snipe 4

Besides, no snipers are vulnerable to any clown cars nor LVs. All will survive at least two full bursts while in no cover.


Pretty sure they normalised the snipers after removing a man from sov one, but I might be wrong.
22 Dec 2018, 14:07 PM
#10
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



Pretty sure they normalised the snipers after removing a man from sov one, but I might be wrong.


no the ost sniper is still superior to the sov sniper...
22 Dec 2018, 15:06 PM
#11
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2018, 14:07 PMgbem


no the ost sniper is still superior to the sov sniper...


Hmmm, interesting, thanks.
22 Dec 2018, 18:39 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


You snipe a gren model, and the squad is only 75% effective.

LMG42 exists and makes this as incorrect as it gets.
22 Dec 2018, 22:23 PM
#13
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2018, 18:39 PMKatitof

LMG42 exists and makes this as incorrect as it gets.


Replace that with Pgren model, or in fact any other stock 4 man squad and it is still correct.
22 Dec 2018, 22:38 PM
#14
avatar of BeastHunter

Posts: 186

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2018, 18:39 PMKatitof

LMG42 exists and makes this as incorrect as it gets.


well good luck then hunting snipers with lmg grens. This would buther the effective moving dps even further.
22 Dec 2018, 22:46 PM
#15
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

The Soviet sniper has greater impact on axis squad for sure, but due to the usually condensed dps in them and often long range orientation it finds itself at greater risk from return fire

Also I don't think the Soviet sniper needs vet 0 flares. It used to have them before they removed sprint and simply vet gated their previously always accessible ability but I really don't think it's necessary anymore as it's pretty much a clone of the axis one. Why should it get a freebie?
22 Dec 2018, 22:53 PM
#16
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

the only problem is that flare reveal the ost sniper too
22 Dec 2018, 23:06 PM
#17
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



well good luck then hunting snipers with lmg grens. This would buther the effective moving dps even further.

You hunt them with grens?

What else?
You counter tank destroyers by frontal medium tank charges?
22 Dec 2018, 23:40 PM
#18
avatar of BeastHunter

Posts: 186

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2018, 23:06 PMKatitof

You hunt them with grens?

What else?
You counter tank destroyers by frontal medium tank charges?


You can easily push snipers from the field if you move towards them and get a few shots of, and maybe take better positions or hold onto cutoffs as you should have more infantry squads as the enemy invested quite some manpower into the sniper.

It is usually better to fight snipers with light vehicles and way safer to simply countersnipe them but if you miss out on those options then it is best to push your advantage that you surrently have like flanking and attacking with lmg grens - as getting sniped from afar and not reacting while you can only damage a meatshield that sits in green cover won't help you combat a sniper.

And some Tank destroyers can obviously be charged frontally by mediums if you simply have an advantage or they are stuck in bad positions, cornered or if you have air or artillery support to change the favour of engagements.
23 Dec 2018, 03:48 AM
#19
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



well good luck then hunting snipers with lmg grens. This would buther the effective moving dps even further.


i think the point there was that LMG grens concentrate most of their firepower on 1 man.. an lmg gren still has more firepower than a standard gren even with 1 man alive..
23 Dec 2018, 04:03 AM
#20
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

The Soviet sniper has greater impact on axis squad for sure, but due to the usually condensed dps in them and often long range orientation it finds itself at greater risk from return fire

Also I don't think the Soviet sniper needs vet 0 flares. It used to have them before they removed sprint and simply vet gated their previously always accessible ability but I really don't think it's necessary anymore as it's pretty much a clone of the axis one. Why should it get a freebie?


its not exactly an axis clone per say... it still has lower rate of fire than the ost sniper to the point that it takes more shots to kill a 4 man squad than it takes the ost sniper to kill a 6 man squad.... which is exactly the problem... the ost sniper does everything better

maybe giving the sov sniper better scouting range or faster aimtime might do?
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