OKW's 221 is too weak for its 20 fuel cost

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 10:00 AMKatitof

Only purpose of 221 is to upgrade to 223.
Its firepower is decent and its going to 1 burst kill sniper(2 on the move).

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 10:00 AMKatitof

Given there is puppchen in T0, it shouldn't have any meaningful performance against lights.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 10:00 AMKatitof

I can't see a single logical reason why 221 would exist other then give OKW something to build in early game that isn't volks.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 09:55 AMTher200

You are comparing the fuel only with the combat effectiveness against eachother. Whilst to cost for a unit comes from much more aspects.

- The combat effectiveness against all other units it might face.

- Other utitlities (smoke, med crates, riegels, 223 potential with its abilities)


Besides this i think the 221 performs fine.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 11:47 AMLago

The 221 is about as good as it can be in that price in that window.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 11:47 AMLago

The Clown Car works because it's up against a faction with Vet 0 extra-long range snares on most of the units it'll have at that point, and a faction with a T0 AT gun.

The 221 is up against USF, which has snares locked behind Vet 1, and UKF, which has both mines and snares on a T1 engineer unit.

If you turn the 221 into a potent shock unit against mainline infantry, you'll see it every game. You'd be giving the already strong early game faction a powerful super-light vehicle its opponents can't counter properly.

The balance team did a good job making the 223 work: it rolls out as a passable light vehicle that provides useful but not game-changing fire support in its window.

Once you have access to the 223 upgrade, the 221's window has passed and you upgrade them. Once things get too hot for the 223, you set it up on a fuel point and it pays back the 30 fuel you spent on it.

No it is not it has only 1 armor more than Kubel, which come earlier and and is much cheaper.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 12:30 PMLago

And the Kubel had its armour reduced because small arms, all USF and UKF have to fight it early on, weren't reliable against it.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 12:30 PMLago

You make it more powerful, you turn it into a shock unit. You turn it into a shock unit, Elite Armor doctrine will become oppressive.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 12:30 PMLago

As a non-upgradable unit, it'd be pretty meh. But it isn't a non-upgradeable unit.

If you don't like the 221, don't buy it before your truck is up, then turn it into a 223 straight away.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 12:35 PMVipper

Kubel does not require tech cost and it is allot cheaper.

Kubel spam was a problem but the unit is hardy used now, the 221 is simply not cost efficient.


And making it useless make revamping the commander pointless.


The 223 is simply a more durable OPEL truck with 30 fuel cost and 4 pop and thus inferior.

Kubel does not require tech cost and it is allot cheaper.

Kubel spam was a problem but the unit is hardy used now, the 221 is simply not cost efficient.

And making it useless make revamping the commander pointless.

The 223 is simply a more durable OPEL truck with 30 fuel cost and 4 pop and thus inferior.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 12:42 PMgbem

Note that usf ukf and sov dont get T0 AT guns or snares without sidetechs or vet...

Give The allies t0 at guns... and free snares without sidetechs on basic units and sure we can buff the 221... otherwise its fine as it is...

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 12:45 PMLago

It's not meant to be. If it were, you'd see them spammed. Imagine playing against Soviet T1 as USF.

The purpose of the 221 is to provide some helpful extra firepower and anti-team weapon support before the 223 upgrade unlocks. The 223 upgrade turns it into an anti-infantry 222 with a load of useful support abilities. It can also turn into a cache when you're not using it to pay back its fuel cost.

It is, first and foremost, a utility vehicle. If you'd rather an anti-infantry shock unit, build the Luchs.

There's a world of difference between being useless and being a shock unit. The 221 is useful if you have it.

Opel trucks aren't fast, armoured and armed.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 12:46 PMVipper

221 need tech and allot of fuel, both USF and UKF can counter it.

Also read my suggestions, the unit should not be design against infantry.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 12:47 PMVipper

Opel truck is also cheaper and hardy used in 1vs1.

• ...fight like an M20 Utility Car.
  
• ...passively detect vehicles through the fog of war.
  
• ...drop medical supplies.
  
• ...provide a lot of sight.
  
• ...deploy smoke with veterancy.
  
• ...turn into a cache.
  
• ...deploy very early without teching in a weaker form, then refit itself into a full 223.
  

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 13:00 PMLago

That's because all an Opel truck can do is be a cache.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 13:00 PMLago

A 223 can...

• ...fight like an M20 Utility Car.
  
• ...passively detect vehicles through the fog of war.
  
• ...drop medical supplies.
  
• ...provide a lot of sight.
  
• ...deploy smoke with veterancy.
  
• ...turn into a cache.
  
• ...deploy very early without teching in a weaker form, then refit itself into a full 223.
  

If you zero in on only one of these abilities, it's pretty lackluster. But it can do all of them, switching roles as needed. The balance team did a good job on it.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 12:42 PMgbem

Note that usf ukf and sov dont get T0 AT guns or snares without sidetechs or vet...

Give The allies t0 at guns... and free snares without sidetechs on basic units and sure we can buff the 221... otherwise its fine as it is...

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 13:36 PMStug life

if they cant wait for counter (like ost does) why not pick a doc with eraly at ? to counter a doc with a lv ?

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 13:54 PMaomsinzana

Osteer only have a trouble against T70, not against 1st minute mark clown car, UC or WC51.

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 14:00 PMStug life

yea and the 221 comes only after 50 fuel what's the problem

Jump back to quoted post24 Dec 2018, 14:00 PMStug life

yea and the 221 comes only after 50 fuel what's the problem