can we now fix soviet T2 please?

It depends when the unit will arrive. And between T70 and 222 isn't such a huge distance.

As German I like the Zis. Can pen everything up to Brummbär now.

Sure DShK got nerfed, it was op as fu**.

And yes, the hole point is, that Cons doen't perform worse than Osttruppen. You get enough tools too deal with them and the MG42. Maybe don't spam only Cons?

Cons are worse than ostruppen at long ranges period (even stuglife despite his bias acknowledged this)
The maxim is the worst mg ingame... (tested with cheatmods 2)
Yes i can hammer the nail with a rusty hammer... but ost has a better hammer that simply does everything my hammer can do but better...

Pgrens get insane close range dps a nukenade really good RA... theyre dedicated cqc infantry... IS need to sidetech for nades have weaker nades overall and needs to get a 35 fuel upgrade to stand a chance against pgrens...

But most importanty pgrens can rush IS and win without taking too many losses... cons lose on the attack vs ostruppen...

let guess this assuption are pulled out from ur ass too right ? if pg lose a man then IS can win, while ostruppen have 1.25 recived accuracy and at 10 range cover doesn't work so they lose if cons are 5 men or more

btw why are pointing out grandes ? we are comparing dps and when they come out like u said, u are just trying to deviate the argument cause u have nothing to base it, only ur bias...
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do i need more ..... to prove my point, dont act like a victim before asking for changes check the stats

let guess this assuption are pulled out from ur ass too right ? if pg lose a man then IS can win, while ostruppen have 1.25 recived accuracy and at 10 range cover doesn't work so they lose if cons are 5 men or more

btw why are pointing out grandes ? we are comparing dps and when they come out like u said, u are just trying to deviate the argument cause u have nothing to base it, only ur bias...
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do i need more ..... to prove my point, dont act like a victim before asking for changes check the stats

Ostruppen attacking vs cons have already been tested on cheatmods... that is no assumption however i have not tested IS vs Pgren...
I shall test pgrens vs IS for the purpose of fair testing

Why did we cite snares and trenches awhile ago in ostruppen vs cons? Were comparing the toolsets of the two infantry units not the just dps and RA in a vacuum... you are cherrypicking data here...

Ostruppen attacking vs cons have already been tested on cheatmods... that is no assumption however i have not tested IS vs Pgren...
I shall test pgrens vs IS for the purpose of fair testing

Why did we cite snares and trenches awhile ago in ostruppen vs cons? Were comparing the toolsets of the two infantry units not the just dps and RA in a vacuum... you are cherrypicking data here...

the edge of ostuppen have on cons at long range is like 0,3 more dps but if cons stay at long range the fight is pretty even as they have less RA unlike the PG vs IS wich is around 1

the edge of ostuppen have on cons at long range is like 0,3 more dps but if cons stay at long range the fight is pretty even as they have less RA unlike the PG vs IS wich is around 1

Those numbers... is that with or without the 50% acc boost from cover? Also cons afaik have 1.06 RA... the loss of coh2 stats hu was a big hit to my data collection to the point that i resorted to cheatmods for testing purposes

The test was done like this... fired a mortar and put 2 ost models in yellow cover then rushed cons to medium range at another crater... cons lost consistently...

Those numbers... is that with or without the 50% acc boost from cover? Also cons afaik have 1.06 RA... the loss of coh2 stats hu was a big hit to my data collection to the point that i resorted to cheatmods for testing purposes

The test was done like this... fired a mortar and put 2 ost models in yellow cover then rushed cons to medium range at another crater... cons lost consistently...

no without cover they have worse dps at all range and if they are moving they like 0,3 dps at all range
cons have 1.06 while osturppen have 1.25, if u want stats just look for the cruzz google doc

no without cover they have worse dps at all range and if they are moving they like 0,3 dps at all range
cons have 1.06 while osturppen have 1.25, if u want stats just look for the cruzz google doc

Regardless my testing still concluded an ostruppen victory in the process ive stated...

like u did i tested the ostpuppen vs cons, if they rush at green cover cons lose (as they should) at yellow cover they win 2 time and lost 3, both at max range in same cover it was up to the last man, at medium range cons won in saem cover 70% of the time and if they rushed 50% while at close cons only lost 1 time

its normal to lose if u rush a unit in green cover, especially if the unit is made to fight in cover, as it has 0.25 moving accuracy, osttuppen only win if they have cover and range advantage, if u want cons to win every engagement with ostrppen then they should cost 120 mp not 200 (so at least 2 ostruppen squad can match cons)

like u did i tested the ostpuppen vs cons, if they rush at green cover cons lose (as they should) at yellow cover they win 2 time and lost 3, both at max range in same cover it was up to the last man, at medium range cons won in saem cover 70% of the time and if they rushed 50% while at close cons only lost 1 time

its normal to lose if u rush a unit in green cover, especially if the unit is made to fight in cover, as it has 0.25 moving accuracy, osttuppen only win if they have cover and range advantage, if u want cons to win every engagement with ostrppen then they should cost 120 mp not 200 (so at least 2 ostruppen squad can match cons)

The difference between ostroppen and cons is the same difference between grens and rifles/Tommies. That's a pretty big difference in power... Or should be...

like u did i tested the ostpuppen vs cons, if they rush at green cover cons lose (as they should) at yellow cover they win 2 time and lost 3, both at max range in same cover it was up to the last man, at medium range cons won in saem cover 70% of the time and if they rushed 50% while at close cons only lost 1 time

Your first test is the same as mine ost victory

My second test ended with 6 to 4 with ostruppen victory

Max range same cover = ost usually win

Medium cons win

Close range cons win...

Assessment:
Similar combat ability on the defense in exchange for a much cheaper infantry unit... a weapon upgrade and superior utility for the ostruppen (trenches and bunkers + free pzfaust with tech)

Conclusion: buff cons in some way at least... they perform worse than any core combatant infantry nondoc and are worse at the combatant and meatshield role to ostruppen...

The difference between ostroppen and cons is the same difference between grens and rifles/Tommies. That's a pretty big difference in power... Or should be...

+1 here

Your first test is the same as mine ost victory

My second test ended with 6 to 4 with ostruppen victory

Max range same cover = ost usually win

Medium cons win

Close range cons win...

Assessment:
Similar combat ability on the defense in exchange for a much cheaper infantry unit... a weapon upgrade and superior utility for the ostruppen (trenches and bunkers + free pzfaust with tech)

Conclusion: buff cons in some way at least... they perform worse than any core combatant infantry nondoc and are worse at the combatant and meatshield role to ostruppen...

just cause cons lose at max range vs ostruppen while they are in cover, it does not mean they are bad, cause they stomp ostruppen any other way, ostppen are designed to fight in cover out of it they are nothing way worse than IS buff while in cover (the trenches are from doc, the panzer faust is from tech as it comes with bp1, and again ostruppen are doc units)

its like saying that ober lose to rifle man at close range so they need buff

just cause cons lose at max range vs ostruppen while they are in cover, it does not mean they are bad, cause they stomp ostruppen any other way, ostppen are designed to fight in cover out of it they are nothing way worse than IS buff while in cover (the trenches are from doc, the panzer faust is from tech as it comes with bp1, and again ostruppen are doc units)

its like saying that ober lose to rifle man at close range so they need buff

mmkay lets compare grens to rifles

for 40 mp more... or 14.2% lower MP cost
rifles and grens at long range = close but rifles win +1/2

medium range = rifles win +

close = rifles roflstomp grens ++

both grens and rifles have a nade... riflenade is better at cover vs cover combat... pineapple is a generalist grenade and (imo) superior to the riflenade as its useful in more situations... 1/2+

grens can make a bunker +

both have a nondoc 60 muni anti infantry upgrade... =

grens are cheaper +

rifles = 5... grens = 2

separate category: support weapons
rifles have the 50 cal... the only MG that can compete against the MG-42 really... grens get the MG-42... mg-42 has slightly better suppression but 50 cal outdamages it by a large margin... =

pak 40 is still the best AT gun ingame but APCR + cheap M7 AT gun is good too +1/2

the axis mortar is still by and large the best barrage mortar ingame... 1

rifles vs grens support weapon... +1 1/2 points to gren


meanwhile ostruppen vs cons
for 40 mp more... or 16.7% more MP cost
long range = ost win +

medium range = cons win +

short range = cons win +

cons molly is perhaps the worst incendiary weapon ingame... however ost dont have an anti infantry nade 1/2+

gets free panzerfaust cons have to sidetech for 25 fuel... +

both builds sandbags but ost can build trenches and bunkers +

ost gets an LMG... cons gets a ppsh =

cons gets oorah merge and vet 1 mines +

ostruppen get reduced acc outside of cover -

ostruppen is cheaper +

ost = 3 cons = 4 1/2

now for the real sucker
separate category: support weapons

the maxim is soo crap it can be thrown into the sewage tank... the MG-42 meanwhile is one of the best MGs ingame ++

sov mortar self spots... ost mortar barrages better... =

zis 3 has the worst DPM of all AT guns and attempts compensates this with a 35 muni barrage ability... pak 40 is the best AT gun ingame with a strong ability (TWP)... +

ost = 3 cons = 0

there is a reason why rifleman are considered the most op main line inf and should be nerfed to buff other usf units,a more fair comparison is IS vs green and we can see that is wins at long to medium range but lose at long range and if they are on the move
btw green win at max range thanks to their 0.9 received accuracy but like ostruppen they win only at 30+ range

again trenches are from the doc, at least look at the commander

mg 42 and maxim are comparable the maxim trade supression for fater set up and more mens, the pak cost more than the usf one and is comparable to the brit one *gough they copied the stats gough* but have different vet ability

soviet mortar is my bread and butter i love the unit it has more precise barrage(less scatter smaller circle) but as lower rate of fire, but it can self spot thanks to the cheap flare leaving aside the 6 man

ziz has 10 less pen and 1 second slower reload but again it has barrage from vet 0 and has 6 mans

there is a reason why rifleman are considered the most op main line inf and should be nerfed to buff other usf units,a more fair comparison is IS vs green and we can see that is wins at long to medium range but lose at long range and if they are on the move
btw green win at max range thanks to their 0.9 received accuracy but like ostruppen they win only at 30+ range

again trenches are from the doc, at least look at the commander

riflemen?? the most OP main line infantry?? no... just no... volksgrenadiers are the most cost efficient and OP line infantry BAR NONE... followed by penals and then rifles followed grens followed by IS followed by conscripts as the worst mainline infantry...


IS have a very flat DPS curve afaik... they retain good DPs at long ranges in exchange for short range DPS.... IS should win at long and medium range... maybe lose at closer ranges

mg 42 and maxim are comparable the maxim trade supression for fater set up and more mens, the pak cost more than the usf one and is comparable to the brit one *gough they copied the stats gough* but have different vet ability
mans

the maxim trades firing arc for faster setup and 6 man for high recieved accuracy and deathloop... it doesnt trade suppression for anything... even saying that one of the best mg ingame is comparable to THE worst mg ingame is astounding... you know what since you think the maxim is soo good maybe they should switch the MG-42 and the maxim... leave ost with the maxim for a patch and see how many people complain ehh?

the pak is more expensive than the USF one but i love the USF one bcz of APCR... still the pak is superior to both the brit and US AT gun due to target weakpoint

soviet mortar is my bread and butter i love the unit it has more precise barrage(less scatter smaller circle) but as lower rate of fire, but it can self spot thanks to the cheap flare leaving aside the 6 man

the hence why i equated the turbomortar and the self spotting mortar... one is a really good barrage mortar due to its fast ROF and can self counterbatt and the other can self spot for 30 muni is slightly more precise and has a 6 man crew....

ziz has 10 less pen and 1 second slower reload but again it has barrage from vet 0 and has 6 mans

barrage is useless vs non blobbing and non static enemies and 6 man doesnt save it from its awful RA...

just cause cons lose at max range vs ostruppen while they are in cover, it does not mean they are bad, cause they stomp ostruppen any other way, ostppen are designed to fight in cover out of it they are nothing way worse than IS buff while in cover (the trenches are from doc, the panzer faust is from tech as it comes with bp1, and again ostruppen are doc units)

its like saying that ober lose to rifle man at close range so they need buff

Cons losing to ostroppen doesn't make them bad, no they are bad because:
They can't out number the enemy because they cost the same/almost the same per squad. They can't out fight because they have no weapon upgrades, the aren't more efficient because you have a number of side techs to make them do basic things, they can't even outlast because they have no means of healing on field.
They have incredible vet 3 performance but their vet 1 is a fucking flare mine.
They arnt bad because they lose to a cheaper unit in CO er at long range, they are bad because everything they can do someone else can do better and for cheaper. They are bad because they are not good. At anything.

riflemen?? the most OP main line infantry?? no... just no... volksgrenadiers are the most cost efficient and OP line infantry BAR NONE... followed by penals and then rifles followed grens followed by IS followed by conscripts as the worst mainline infantry...


IS have a very flat DPS curve afaik... they retain good DPs at long ranges in exchange for short range DPS.... IS should win at long and medium range... maybe lose at closer ranges


the maxim trades firing arc for faster setup and 6 man for high recieved accuracy and deathloop... it doesnt trade suppression for anything... even saying that one of the best mg ingame is comparable to THE worst mg ingame is astounding... you know what since you think the maxim is soo good maybe they should switch the MG-42 and the maxim... leave ost with the maxim for a patch and see how many people complain ehh?

the pak is more expensive than the USF one but i love the USF one bcz of APCR... still the pak is superior to both the brit and US AT gun due to target weakpoint


the hence why i equated the turbomortar and the self spotting mortar... one is a really good barrage mortar due to its fast ROF and can self counterbatt and the other can self spot for 30 muni is slightly more precise and has a 6 man crew....


barrage is useless vs non blobbing and non static enemies and 6 man doesnt save it from its awful RA...

volks op yayayada stg are x 1000 better than bar yada yada, etc rifleman are still the best mainline infantry, they carry the entire faction, that's why usf has awful support weapon.....

what i meant is that IS beats green at long and medium range but green beat them at close ......

maxim has the same RA as mg42 what are on ?......

as already said the maxim just needs a 0,001 increase in sup and 20% more damage so it's not another clone mg it will suppress and deal damage while mg 42 only suppress......

tw is good but other at guns have some really good vet too (for example more range on usf) and if im not wrong the brit one still has bonus acc to either LV or tank......

the barrage is used and they even had to nerf cause it was too good and wiped easily, now u can kill some units with the first shoot and if u are aming at support weapon or building it sill kill it.....

reducing the cost by 20/30 mp would amk4e cons op, just look what happened when they slightly buffed them cause everyone was whining, they instantly had to revert the range changes....

edit:forgot to add dot at the end of every phrase....
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hello guys today with dora we will do some math lesson yeaa, what is 6x4 ? it's 24 gj guys, now what's 6x3,6 ? 21,6 gj guys, now for the last one, 480/24 ? 20 , and 320/21,6 ? its 14,5 gj guys but now go to advanced math we need to count received acc so it becomes 19 seconds and 16 (im being a bit generous) seconds respectively
in conclusion cons beat green at close range with 3 seconds of advantage

this is not counting that green lose 1/4 of their dps for each man while cons only lose 1/6

now kat where were when the teacher was explaing math in school ?

Don't stop there, keep going, don't ignore LMG upgrade either. Remember that these are also conscripts, not Warp Spiders, they will have to actually approach target first, not blink into CQC range and they will deal 50% less dps while receiving full for at least 2-3 seconds.

See? I'm encouraging you, that's way better educational method then scolding.

Don't stop there, keep going, don't ignore LMG upgrade either. Remember that these are also conscripts, not Warp Spiders, they will have to actually approach target first, not blink into CQC range and they will deal 50% less dps while receiving full for at least 2-3 seconds.

See? I'm encouraging you, that's way better educational method then scolding.

" quote" " they are efficient at what they are designed for, close range, and 80 more hp is nothing to scof at


Not without ppsh, they are not. In fact, they are one of the most inefficient squads in game if not the most inefficient one without dedicating them a doctrine.

HP advantage is completely irrelevant when you go up against weapons that deal 50% or more DPS then yours.

Come on, were you hiding your head in the sand for last 3 years? "

they win at close as i said while u said they did not without ppsh, and u said hp advantage is irrelevant and i proved my point (remember not all map are open field)

IMO a better fix would be cost to
building
240MO
15~20 fuel
maxim down - 240
(Build time reduced by 10 or stats buffed your pick)
Mortar - 240
ATG - 300


I mean we have to consider the fact that MG42 is t0, needs no tech, and is relatively cheap.
Maxim needs a buff TLDR and fuel cost of t2 makes it un-appealing and still lacks the scout car that you would normally invest your fuel in if you went t1