Increase light jaegars price

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 18:39 PMVipper

No you do not, if you had used logic correctly you wouldn't originally suggested that JLI should cost 340 and come at CP 6.

You would be aware that that suggestions is simply ridiculous.

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 18:39 PMVipper

You are absolutely wrong, the 2 units use 2 rifles each with completely different characteristics while having different durability and while firing at different targets.

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 18:39 PMVipper

If you want to test me or someone else can create a mod for you.

You can contact me via PM but pls until then stop spamming post in this thread.

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 18:24 PMgbem

we dont have empirical data but we do have logic... a comparison between I&R pathfinders in a similar situation shows that that the G-43 performance must be responsible for the majority of the kills as the only real difference in combat ability between I&R paths and JLI as of the moment remains the superior performance of the G-43...

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 18:43 PMgbem

thats not how this works.. going out of cover at 10 meters is still going to kill you more than going into cover at 10 meters... what the 0.9 accuracy multiplier means is that in cover a shot is only 90% accurate as opposed to 100% accurate outside of cover... likewise a standard grenadier shot or a penal shot gets a 0.5 accuracy multiplier in cover... which means a penal round or a gren round is only 50% effective in cover...

• Manpower cost to 280 MP, G43 upgrade to 60 munitions.
  
• Moved to CP0, buildable from OKW's headquarters building.
  
• G43 upgrade gated behind the first set-up truck, like Volks STGs.

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 19:38 PMLago

• Manpower cost to 280 MP, G43 upgrade to 60 munitions.
  
• Moved to CP0, buildable from OKW's headquarters building.
  
• G43 upgrade gated behind the first set-up truck, like Volks STGs.

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 19:21 PMSander93

Second what Tobis obviously meant was that Penals below 10 range will slaughter JLI because they get much more DPS at that range and the sniper won't help them.

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 15:01 PMWiderstreit

So, do we now have any ideas to balance them? You guys are turning in circle.

We have:
- they are too cheap
- they are too spam-able
- they become too strong with G43-upgrade.

They become cheaper and lower CP to send them in earlyer, that is good... But I still think it would be better to remove Jägers and make Obersoldate arrive earlyer, or make a Jäger-upgrade for them.

OR

- Making them 300mp again and an unit-limitation.

OR

- remove them, replace them with an Jäger-upgrade for Obersoldaten (like STGs).

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 18:22 PMTobis

The .9 cover accuracy on the g43 makes them beat penals in cover regardless of range, though it's somewhat close at range 10. You can literally move the penals up one meter to range 9 and annihilate the jaegers because they aren't in cover, but he wants to ignore that. That's reasonable performance for a 280mp squad with 45 muni upgrade.

I see a lot of, "why can't my penal spam beat combined arms?" in this thread. Try out new unit combos in the new meta. JLI are literally designed to counter penals and guards. Flamer CE, conscripts with molotovs, and shocks are all good versus JLI.

JLI are obviously going to be nerfed in the next patch, they aren't a 250 mp squad. Comparing them to pathfinders doesn't work because pathfinders are pretty shit, only good because they come at cp0 now. Would like to see them buffed too.

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 21:28 PMEsxile

The problem is how well they work with volks. Also you can't really be serious telling people to go conscripts vs OKW to counter JLI.

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 21:50 PMTobis

Not only conscript, but getting 1-2 for support helps a lot. One penal + one conscript will be better off attacking 1 volks + one JLI if you have mollies teched than 2 penals.

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 21:50 PMTobis

Not only conscript, but getting 1-2 for support helps a lot. One penal + one conscript will be better off attacking 1 volks + one JLI if you have mollies teched than 2 penals.

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 18:51 PMgbem

340 + 2CP isnt ridiculous for the performance of JLI... although i do admit 6 CP was outrageous but i was looking for even timing with obers... noted that shocks and guards came at 2CP aswell and therefore costed accordingly

340 mp is warranted when compared to penals and paths which they both cream


the characteristics of the rifle is different yes... but DPM and ACC is close for both rifles... the major differences between the two remain
1. 0.9 acc vs cover

2. 70% health crit
and therefore i suspected one of those to be the source of the issue

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 18:51 PMgbem

yes they are firing at difficult targets... but one can clearly destroy a penal squad at any range except cqc while the other struggles vs STGvolks at medium-close range...

try it out... make the crit 40% and test it out with friends or something in a custom game... thats the only real way to settle this debate realistically anyways

Jump back to quoted post28 Dec 2018, 01:27 AMJae For Jett

Im fairly sure the obvious path has already been laid out. Spamming a bunch of absurd scenarios and comparisons to justify absurd changes probably wont do much. A reasonable suggestion in this thread has already been contributed, and most users seem to agree with it. Obviously no guarantees, but im personally really sure this change will quickly pass through as the chosen fix.

Jump back to quoted post28 Dec 2018, 01:31 AMmortiferum

Can you restate what fix it might be? I must have missed the memo.

Jump back to quoted post28 Dec 2018, 01:44 AMaddvaluejack

I believe most people agree that change JLI's price to 280~300 MP and increase G43's upgrade cost to 60 MU. There is no need to change its CP requirements or combat stats.

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 07:48 AMgbem

when your "combined arms" beats the "combined arms" of quite literally all other axis and allied combinations you know its OP

penals + sniper + guards? nah JLI + volks + rak is still better... grens + pak 40 + sniper? even JLI can beat that alone... rifles + mortar + atgun/RE zooks? JLI will crush that outright... oooh what about IS + sniper + at gun + sappers? nah JLI cream that aswell...

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 19:38 PMLago

• Manpower cost to 280 MP, G43 upgrade to 60 munitions.
  
• Moved to CP0, buildable from OKW's headquarters building.
  
• G43 upgrade gated behind the first set-up truck, like Volks STGs.

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2018, 14:43 PMgbem

false and false... it seems you have a problem with your reading comprehension... ive already laid the test data on penals vs jagers at range 10 and 20... read my posts before you open your mouth