Increase light jaegars price

• Manpower cost to 280 MP, G43 upgrade to 60 munitions.
  
• Moved to CP0, buildable from OKW's headquarters building.
  
• G43 upgrade gated behind the first set-up truck, like Volks STGs.

I would support this change

• Manpower cost to 280 MP, G43 upgrade to 60 munitions.
  
• Moved to CP0, buildable from OKW's headquarters building.
  
• G43 upgrade gated behind the first set-up truck, like Volks STGs.

I am not sure if that is enough. I would rather also see:
1) DPS of the K98 becoming flat at round 10 range
Reason:
So that the unit become vulnerable to QCQ combat

2) First strike bonus moved to veterancy
Reason:
Unit should start with less of punch and scale

3) A veterancy overhaul
Reason:
The unit gets allot of received accuracy bonus

4) The synergy of "for the furtherland" and JLI.
Reason:
JLI using sprint and F.T.F. are moving extremely fast and the accuracy bonuses from fisrt strike and F.T.F are very high.

I am not even sure if the infiltration deployment should be removed since they are a useful tool vs snipers.

The K98 and the m3 carbine and the scope rifles are using different profiles. Check the weapons here:
https://coh2db.com/stats/

I you are only suspecting pls stop spamming until you have tested.

i did show the reasons as to why i came up with that conclusion

evidence 1: looking thru the data
A. 0.9 acc vs cover

B. 70% health crit

it is therefore logical to assume one of these 2 must be the culprit for the insane performance

evidence 2: paths get slaughtered by JLI with the sniper rifle... but is completely reversed without the G-43

evidence 3: i have tested JLI without the sniper vs the targets ive previously stated (penals obers shocks etc)... their performance is almost identical to grenadiers... which further leads me to conclude that the G-43 is the problem

evidence but not empirical testing data: i see in my tests a model snipe vs a lightly damaged model from the sniper is usually what kills the enemy models not the fire from the grenadier KARs... this is data from observation and in no way actual numbers though....

I don't have the time to test these changes adequately. I can probably provide you with MOD but you would have to do all the testing with your friends.

that may be a problem... regardless nerfing them to 40% crit puts them to pathfinder standards therefore the least likely to break the game

Wrong, the winner becomes those with better tactics in this situation.

wrong the winner is JLI spam because regardless of what the other combinations do JLI spam is going to be more cost efficient

Awesome fix, I like this

280mp 60 muni penal stealthed sprinting boobytrapping penal destroyers? no thank you

Wrong. Jaegers lose to penals at all ranges below 10, learn to deal with a new strategy, ie instead of spamming penals, try combined arms, although I doubt your micro can handle it. You're on the forums, bitching because you're incapable of adapting.

meanwhile jagers massacre penals at all ranges ABOVE 10... and its not like they can close the gap without getting EXTERMINATED

If you accuse me of ad hominem, you're wrong, you don't even know what ad hominem is. I have not insulted you with the purpose of detracting from your point, "Your brain is mush" is simply an observation, one that I assure you, many would agree with. Also, you're a hypocrite, you've insulted multiple people in this thread (except you did have the intention of discrediting their posts), but can't deal with being insulted yourself, what kind of man does that make you?

an argumentum ad hominem is an attempt to detract the point via baseless insults... you have not added one valid point on that specific argument and in older arguments insisted that they are balanced like the little wehraboo you are

Also, you said penals LOSE TO JLI at all ranges, as far as I'm concerned, this irrevocably proves that you're mentally stunted.

JLI wipe nothing at medium or close range. They have an inverse DPS curve, as in, the closer you get to them, the lower their DPS is, unlike volks.

which are both false as my tests proved... but you deny it because that sodium hypochlorite has damaged your brain

JLI are fine, learn to close the distance, their DPS gets worse at close range, unlike most squads who have higher dps at closer range

which proves you are a fucking wehraboo

and of course theres that dumb combined arms argument of yours thinking that any other faction`s combined arms can match the COST EFFICIENCY of JLI + volk + rakaten combo...

also its not like volks were already the most cost efficient line infantry pre patch... the addition of JLI broke everything...

All I can say is, all you consistently do is move the goalposts and ignore points that you cant refute. Ie, if EVERYONE in this thread tells you JLI are not OP, because you can win in close range, even with cons, OR use light vehicles. You then say that volks are the problem, preventing you from closing the gap. This is moving the goalposts, as JLI arent the problem. You also say you cant use light vehicles because of rakaten.

1. democracy isnt always right

2. i didnt ignore points i cannot refute... im about to make a post addressing sanders by running further tests which i shall do shortly

3. when i did make a mistake i admit it and acknowledge it like the 6cp estimate

4. if you are suggesting conscripts against OKW...quite literally the worst line infantry ingame... then you are retarded

5. the balance between OKW wehr and SOV was solid pre patch... penals rolled OKW with the M3 early on but OKW could make a strong comeback later in the game with heavy volk STG play obers and MG-34 combined arms...

It seems like you just want penals to beat everything and you cant deal with trying to counter JLI. All I gather from your posts, is you probably blob penals and QQ because it doesn't work against 2 OKW doctrines now. Get a grip fool.

youve read the 221 post but you didnt even bother to read my comments... good work retard
https://www.coh2.org/topic/84803/okw-s-221-is-too-weak-for-its-20-fuel-cost

my suggestion is much less destructive to balance

penals - nerf to volks mosin clone give optional DP upgrade but keep PTRS as optional

SVT deathblobs wont occur but penals are now good at holding the line but lose alot of dps on the move... no more unstoppable deathblobs...

cons - ppsh becomes nondoc... ppsh commander abilities get replaced by cons storm package with smoke grenades HE nade and hit the dirt...

cons are still balanced vs grens earlygame but now can compete vs grens lategame without getting slaughtered

maxim - +0.001 suppression and inc damage...

maxim no longer becomes useless

https://www.coh2.org/topic/84760/can-we-now-fix-soviet-t2-please/page/10

in both cases i supported a penal nerf... in fact im not a fan of sov T1 play myself... i was only FORCED to adapt sov T1 play after the (over)buffing of penals due to the december patch (2 years ago i think)... i entered COH 2 primarily as a wehrmacht and soviet support weapon player... my preferred tactic is lots of standoff weapons to keep you at a distance attempt to intercept any flanking moves and keep using my standoff weapons to whittle you down from a distance... very ost like indeed...

but ive also adopted the penal assault strategy quite well too... its just that JLI smash that playstyle by virtue of sheer cost efficiency...


lastly i can throw your argument back at you
It seems like you just want JLI to beat everything and you cant deal with trying to counter penals. All I gather from your posts, is you probably blob volks and QQ because it doesn't work against soviet T1 doctrines now. Get a grip fool.

I don't really have the time or energy to consistently provide you with evidence of your improper usage of logical fallacies, as the school system has clearly failed in your case. So, please stop dragging this discussion off point.

and you clearly show your arrogance and lack of understanding beyond analysis of any data judging by your closed mindedness to any data beyond the limitations of your dumbass biases... it is probable that you are a simple highschool graduate that did not achieve any collage level or postgraduate level education as you clearly have not undergone or at least not understood the basic concept of research

I am not sure if that is enough. I would rather also see:
1) DPS of the K98 becoming flat at round 10 range
Reason:
So that the unit become vulnerable to QCQ combat

2) First strike bonus moved to veterancy
Reason:
Unit should start with less of punch and scale

3) A veterancy overhaul
Reason:
The unit gets allot of received accuracy bonus

4) The synergy of "for the furtherland" and JLI.
Reason:
JLI using sprint and F.T.F. are moving extremely fast and the accuracy bonuses from fisrt strike and F.T.F are very high.

I am not even sure if the infiltration deployment should be removed since they are a useful tool vs snipers.

actually this seems like a good idea... someone should test this out aswell

Not only conscript, but getting 1-2 for support helps a lot. One penal + one conscript will be better off attacking 1 volks + one JLI if you have mollies teched than 2 penals.

bringing a conscript to a penal fight is bringing a featherduster to a gunfight...

You should use the numbers rather than your 'logic'. I&R Pathfinders will perform worse at range by default because they have 3x carbines that have 10 damage and 0,403 accuracy at far range. JLI have 3x Kar98K with 16 damage and 0,598 accuracy. Also JLI have 0,8 target size as opposed to 1,0 of IRPF. So your conclusion about the sniper is completely invalid. There's lots of other factors to consider.

nah... this is false as the DPS of the KAR98 and the m1 carbine is nearly the same at 20 range.. which is the range i did the time to kill tests...
https://coh2db.com/stats/
likewise target size doesnt matter in time to kill vs a target... tested on the conscript and JLI still kill faster... no timer but i did make them fire at the same time and the JLI kills the cons faster than the paths do... which narrows the culprit down to the G-43s performance...

First of all the sniper rifle has worse accuracy at close range (1,15 far; 0,92 mid; 0,575 near) so it will be less effective at closer ranges. Second what Tobis obviously meant was that Penals below 10 range will slaughter JLI because they get much more DPS at that range and the sniper won't help them.

actually what tobis meant was denying the cover bonus by stepping into range 10... going outside of cover means penals get slaughtered even more...

regardless it seems like a good idea until you realize penals closing from max range vs JLI get slaughtered... its not like the shocks vs lmgobers dynamic where shocks actually stand a chance to close in and get the kill... penals do not...

I suggest you invest the time you spend on useless rambles in this thread into actually learning to play if you think Penals charging into JLI from max range should be a valid tactic.


You've made your point and literally nobody agrees so stop flooding the thread with nonsense please.

I suggest you invest the time you spend on useless rambles in this thread into actually learning to play if you think Penals charging into JLI from max range should be a valid tactic.

and what is a T1 soviet build supposed to do vs JLI + STGvolks... if you are soo pro as to explain to me what they should do aside from massing SU-76s and barraging the living crap out of JLI + mass mining the enemy...

tell me a COST EFFICIENT way of beating that combination...

and if you mention conscripts then you have proven yourself retarded

You've made your point and literally nobody agrees so stop flooding the thread with nonsense please.

actually some people do... soo this argument is moot... some people have already pointed out charging into STG volks is suicide with penal-guards builds...

I'm not gonna invis the posts, but you should know proper "forum etiquette".

Having 2/3 posts one after the other one, should be an exception. What you are constantly doing is called spam.

Use either the edit function, more options to preview your comment, use of spoilers to reduce length when quoting, use the multiquote etc.

JLI are supposed to beat penals any day of the week. Penals comes with free svts, but JLI need to pay 45 munis for their "sniper like" rifles.

JLI are supposed to beat penals any day of the week. Penals comes with free svts, but JLI need to pay 45 munis for their "sniper like" rifles.

45mu is sub premium. That's a cheap upgrade. Especially for its impact. While I agree that penals need toned down 300mp as an AI unit should be beating 250mp 45mu in an infiltrating support unit. Paths don't hold up when unsupported...

45mu is sub premium. That's a cheap upgrade. Especially for its impact. While I agree that penals need toned down 300mp as an AI unit should be beating 250mp 45mu in an infiltrating support unit. Paths don't hold up when unsupported...

If we take into account the time needed to earn 45 MU or 50 MP (which would be the difference between JLI and Penals). For the first one, we need, on average, 1 minute. For the second, on average, 15 seconds. Therefore, JLI must beat the Penals.

If we take into account the time needed to earn 45 MU or 50 MP (which would be the difference between JLI and Penals). For the first one, we need, on average, 1 minute. For the second, on average, 15 seconds. Therefore, JLI must beat the Penals.

Then JLI must beat any unit >300 manpower, we can close the topic.

If we take into account the time needed to earn 45 MU or 50 MP (which would be the difference between JLI and Penals). For the first one, we need, on average, 1 minute. For the second, on average, 15 seconds. Therefore, JLI must beat the Penals.

STG volks don't(at least if they are the ones attacking) and LMG grens do exclusively at long range.

Explain please.

As suggested:

-Raise cost back to 280/300
-Increase cost on sniper rifle to around 50/60
-Possibly increase cooldown on ability recharge

I think everything else has mostly been said on the topic regarding the unit and want needs to be changed.

As suggested:

-Raise cost back to 280/300
-Increase cost on sniper rifle to around 50/60
-Possibly increase cooldown on ability recharge

I think everything else has mostly been said on the topic regarding the unit and want needs to be changed.

And done. Thats it. No more JLI blobs but if people still complain about a rare support unit beating a-move penals then they should just git gud. Mad cus bad.

There is actually a away to test how many kills can be attributed to g43 using cheat mod and the health monitor.

When the there is critical kill the weapon will do damage above the normal 16.