Dealing with blobs

I want to address how annoying blobs are and from that starting point I invite anyone to discuss if there is any way to fix/punish mindless blobbing. Its a hard topic, pls dont go nuts.

It always end up being a late midgmae/endgame issue, because the blob gets bigger and bigger each minute passed and as soon as weapons upgrades are availible it get its critical point where it can get through defenses and do a lot of damage. I can point out two possible problems to play against with this gamestyle, the first one is that blobbing players are always aggressive, finding or pushing weak spots since early in the game, so you need a "counter blob" unit/s early and then another better one on lategame, the second one is that blobs (specially when numerous) are hard to kill, I imagine someone saying "you need aoe weapons, rocket arty, blabla" and thats true, as long as a blob is standing still. Thats why I can argue that blobs require bigger micro tax than doing them, and thats why blobbing is either a low/high skill viable strat. Paired up teams or in 4v4 matches blobs are even worse with regards blobs. It doesnt matter wich faction you play with, Axis blobs, Allies blob. And everyone complaint about them too.

The natural counters to blobs are 1st HMGs, later on there are AI tanks and finally big AoE explosions, like rocket arty. Normal static/mobile arty with all recent nerfs just doesnt cut it, IMO.
MGs are great early, some are better, others are worse, but their sole prupose ingame is to deny a squad to move freely, like a wall. Allied Mgs have a harder time since Axis inf has many skills to deal with them or have smaller target size. This idea i will discuss again later.
AI tanks/vehicles are in the best spot since they can withstand some damage and deal even more damage and resource bleed. But at least Axis faction dont have one early, I dont mean to ask one, im pointing out that simple detail. OKM has luch/flakHT and its quite adequate to deal with blobs but fragile. P4 cant hold blobs and Ostwinds are a meme tank with no use at all.
Finally rocket arty or any burst damage in AoE skill is the blob murderer, such units are premium dealing enough damage to delay blobs or kill them. But in each faction, these units are on the top of the tech tree.

Before ending i want to say that HMGs is a little misleading with regards of countering blobs, it will be IMO a soft counter to them. Because HMG will always suppress infantry before killing models, this is meant to give the player some time to react but also to retire, hold the ground a few seconds or give vision to the MG without punishment. Also note that spamming HMGs to stop blobs is a bad decision and in lategame HMGs are quite fragile.
I was wondering if a little buff to HMGs overall mechanic whould be a good way to deal with blobs, if they always kill the first model before suppressing the squad, that way some bleed damage is inflicted. This will mean that Allied HMG will have a better time to deal smaller infantry squads, but IMO Axis blob are worse than Allied. Another way would be that HMGs deal damage over an area on top of AoE suppression.

Massive infantry fights should use big portions of the map and not go clumped toghether as it is the opposite of the way the war it is. This is a game but its based on warfare too.

TL;DR
Show Spoiler

But please share your opinion and solutions
Wich faction blob is harder to counter?
Is this an L2P issue? Does it annoy you too?

Where is the "nerf anything that might possibly deal with a blob and instead do things that promote it like adding more upgrades that FOTM" because there is no reason picking anything BUT that one because that's what relic and the modders do.

Give infantry/mgs aoe dmg at range 0-5.

Like 30% of the dmg splashes or infantry within 5 of each other get -25% received accuracy, that way all infantry that are within rage 5 of each other will take extra dmg, so blobbing is punished at the infantry level.

Just like irl, means blobbing up makes you an easier target.

Also, it doesn't affect build orders or play styles other than punishing units for standing on top of one another.

If needed range could be increased/decreased.

I dont like any of your solutions.

There should simply be a penalty that squads in close proximity to each other (range 0-10 or w/e) receive more RA. Like +3% RA for every model within said distance. Want to run around with 4 Volks or 4 Penals? Fine, enjoy +45% RA or +54% RA per squad and see how long this blob lasts.

There was a similar system for Panzer Elite in CoH1 where squads would buff each other like this (it was a tech upgrade). It was called Group Zeal. It should work like that, but the other way around.


This would simulate bullets being fired at one squad hitting the other (realistic) and it should be more punishing the larger the blob is (gameplay). It has the advantage that it directly buffs all available counters at once (small arms fire, indirect and tanks alike) while not making any of them more powerful against single squads than they currently are.

There should simply be a penalty that squads in close proximity to each other (range 0-10 or w/e) receive more RA. Like +3% RA for every model within said distance. Want to run around with 4 Volks or 4 Penals? Fine, enjoy +45% RA or +54% RA per squad and see how long this blob lasts.

More or less already exists for HMGs in the form of incremental accuracy.

First off, "do nothing" is quite obviously not the same as "no opinion" so the poll is already biased.

Second off, I hate to be that guy but what rank are you roughly? As we know the game balances differently at different skill levels, would be good to know at what ranks blobbing is a problem.

Personally I haven't seen this as an issue in 1v1 at all in a long time - yes it's a fairly low-skill tactic with a high skill counter, yes MGs plus just about any kinds of explosive already counter it. Don't counter a blob with another blob, just bleed it then tech up faster than them while they waste all their MP on reinforcements. Not always easy but it can be done and it's fun when you pull it off.

Sander's "solution" makes a bit more sense but personally, I don't think we need to do anything.

Am not a great player but at my level blobs aren't an issue for me in any matchup in any mode unless im playing like a total idiot.

First option means a NERF for axis HMGs, because we'd have to REMOVE suppression from them to the level where they can do it.

For 2nd, there already are dedicated AI vehicles that will deal with blobs easily, use them.

Third makes no sense and blobs already take massive attrition from explosives.

That leaves l2p and last option.
Alternatively, you can stop playing 4v4.

+1 the counter group zeal as suggested many times
(Obviously disabled around medic stations, FHQs, reinforement HTs, HQs and so on

Alternatively increase the AoE of all MGs suppression and also give them AoE damage
(Notice that well used 42s actually suppress the whole blob with first burst if RNG doesnt screw you over, but all others struggle big time)

P.S. while blobs arent as crazy as before, theyre not balanced and not a strat that should work...

If someone figures it out how to make incremental accuracy work based on numbers of squads instead of number of entities inside, you could pump it up exponentially.

First off, "do nothing" is quite obviously not the same as "no opinion" so the poll is already biased.

Second off, I hate to be that guy but what rank are you roughly? As we know the game balances differently at different skill levels, would be good to know at what ranks blobbing is a problem.

Personally I haven't seen this as an issue in 1v1 at all in a long time - yes it's a fairly low-skill tactic with a high skill counter, yes MGs plus just about any kinds of explosive already counter it. Don't counter a blob with another blob, just bleed it then tech up faster than them while they waste all their MP on reinforcements. Not always easy but it can be done and it's fun when you pull it off.

Sander's "solution" makes a bit more sense but personally, I don't think we need to do anything.

From Allied perspective, how can me and my friend deal with Panzer Grenadiers / Grenadier or Volksgrenadier blobs (we are at rank 2000). The Allied MGs don't suppress all the units like the MG-42 does.

From Allied perspective, how can me and my friend deal with Panzer Grenadiers / Grenadier or Volksgrenadier blobs (we are at rank 2000). The Allied MGs don't suppress all the units like the MG-42 does.

Right, but you can just click on each squad in turn to suppress them (if you right click on the ground by mistake, you'll pack the MG up, so use the hotkey for attack move which won't do that). In general of course you have to be a bit smarter where you set it up, or use another unit to extend the vision range, or have some other squad nearby to come deal with any squad that gets through without having to retreat the MG - nothing in CoH2 is a 100% guaranteed counter to anything else, but 60% of the time it works every time

Right, but you can just click on each squad in turn to suppress them (if you right click on the ground by mistake, you'll pack the MG up, so use the hotkey for attack move which won't do that). In general of course you have to be a bit smarter where you set it up, or use another unit to extend the vision range, or have some other squad nearby to come deal with any squad that gets through without having to retreat the MG - nothing in CoH2 is a 100% guaranteed counter to anything else, but 60% of the time it works every time

*module you try and click dies*
*MG begins to pack up*

First off, "do nothing" is quite obviously not the same as "no opinion" so the poll is already biased.

Second off, I hate to be that guy but what rank are you roughly? As we know the game balances differently at different skill levels, would be good to know at what ranks blobbing is a problem.
...

I didnt meant to say it that way, im not trying to draw a line between factions, i forgot to add the "other solution" option it seems, but i do want people to participate.

About the skill level, I know you all rank +100 players dont care about blobs because you dont suffer them and even less in 1v1. But many discussions have circled around factions spamming infantry and blobbing and i figured out how imbalanced in skill level it is, to perform vs to stop it. I though it deserved a good discussion, if you want to tag me with :L2P: im fine with it, but i made a solid point of the game and this kind of problems tend to kill a game over time IMO. Top level players should not reject new players into the game.

First option means a NERF for axis HMGs, because we'd have to REMOVE suppression from them to the level where they can do it.

First model could drop rather fast.

For 2nd, there already are dedicated AI vehicles that will deal with blobs easily, use them.

Third makes no sense and blobs already take massive attrition from explosives.

I was just giving new ideas. Feel free to disagree.

That leaves l2p and last option.
Alternatively, you can stop playing 4v4.

Finally it wouldnt be yourself if you dont get unnecesary personal with your comments, but tnx for passing by.
I see why you are always upset, you missed the funniest gamemode, 4v4

I think the best route is to give units in green cover incremental accuracy. The units in a prepared position can put up a fight against the onslaught of the enemy before they get focus fired to hell with all sorts of automatic weapon.

When you have 3+ squads sticking onto each other, incease received accuracy for all units?

Katyusha, Panzerwerfer, Calliope, Stuka zu Fuß, Land Mattress. If you don't have these, then MGs and/or infantry melters (Shock Troops, OPSoldaten, Paras, etc.)

you do know 2MGs can simply counter every blobs, do you?

There should simply be a penalty that squads in close proximity to each other (range 0-10 or w/e) receive more RA. Like +3% RA for every model within said distance. Want to run around with 4 Volks or 4 Penals? Fine, enjoy +45% RA or +54% RA per squad and see how long this blob lasts.

There was a similar system for Panzer Elite in CoH1 where squads would buff each other like this (it was a tech upgrade). It was called Group Zeal. It should work like that, but the other way around.


This would simulate bullets being fired at one squad hitting the other (realistic) and it should be more punishing the larger the blob is (gameplay). It has the advantage that it directly buffs all available counters at once (small arms fire, indirect and tanks alike) while not making any of them more powerful against single squads than they currently are.

Literally what i said in the post above.

you do know 2MGs can simply counter every blobs, do you?

SMOKE
M
O
K
E