Flame Halftrack
3 Dec 2018, 17:15 PM
#1
Posts: 378
The recent balance patch focused too much on tweaking 2v2 play and dismissed this game breaking unit that has spreading nightmare and discord all over 1v1.
Can we please fix this overperforming vehicle at least quicker than the fanboys can whine about it being overnerfed?
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
3 Dec 2018, 17:31 PM
#2
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
251
-Veterancy gain when upgraded with flamethrowers reduced by 50%
-Veterancy gain when upgraded with flamethrowers reduced by 50%
3 Dec 2018, 17:37 PM
#3
Posts: 378
251
-Veterancy gain when upgraded with flamethrowers reduced by 50%
You think this makes any difference whatsoever on how it impacts the pace?
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
3 Dec 2018, 17:41 PM
#4
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
You think this makes any difference whatsoever on how it impacts the pace?
It demonstrates that 251FHT have been in the focus of the recent patches contrary to your claim. Will the nerf be enough? will see.
If you ask me DOT should be removed from all flame vehicles and the DOT damage should be only available by an ability. That would help balance flame vehicles allot.
3 Dec 2018, 18:01 PM
#5
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
You think this makes any difference whatsoever on how it impacts the pace?
It stops the 251 from becoming a go-kart after a handful of kills.
With the unit itself I don't see how it's any worse than the T-70 in terms of ridiculous wiping potential. It could do with an adjustment to higher DOT but less direct damage (so same damage against fighting infantry but less wipey on retreats) but nothing more.
IMO the biggest reason of the success of the 251 is that usually Soviets refuse to build T2 in response/anticipation of it and instead always want to stick to Penals and Guards PTRS softcounter just to rush the T-70. Which doesn't end well a lot of the time. It's exactly the same when Ostheer refuses to hardcounter (i.e. Puma) the T-70 and stall for medium armor instead. It's a risk and sometimes it doesn't pay off.
3 Dec 2018, 18:02 PM
#6
Posts: 1392
The change isn't that huge. Flamer still vets fast as hell.
3 Dec 2018, 18:30 PM
#7
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedWhat a hilarious post. The FT halftrack has been nerfed a total of 4 times already. It's the only thing keep Ost alive vs penal hordes which are often backed up by guardsmen. How many more nerfs do you need?
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
3 Dec 2018, 18:31 PM
#8
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
With the unit itself I don't see how it's any worse than the T-70 in terms of ridiculous wiping potential. It could do with an adjustment to higher DOT but less direct damage (so same damage against fighting infantry but less wipey on retreats) but nothing more.
IMO the biggest reason of the success of the 251 is that usually Soviets refuse to build T2 in response/anticipation of it and instead always want to stick to Penals and Guards PTRS softcounter just to rush the T-70. Which doesn't end well a lot of the time. It's exactly the same when Ostheer refuses to hardcounter (i.e. Puma) the T-70 and stall for medium armor instead. It's a risk and sometimes it doesn't pay off.
You nailed it. The flame HT is no more wipey than a T70 on retreat so I'm not sure why he isn't asking for a T70 nerf. Both vehicles punish overextended units. You explained the risk and reward scenario perfectly.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
3 Dec 2018, 19:28 PM
#9
Posts: 378
IMO the biggest reason of the success of the 251 is that usually Soviets refuse to build T2 in response/anticipation of it and instead always want to stick to Penals and Guards PTRS softcounter just to rush the T-70. Which doesn't end well a lot of the time. It's exactly the same when Ostheer refuses to hardcounter (i.e. Puma) the T-70 and stall for medium armor instead. It's a risk and sometimes it doesn't pay off.
They refuse to build T2 in anticipation of the flame HT? That's your theory?
Please show me your playercard, I want to make it certain you have more than 10 games played as soviets...
The vet nerf changed absolutely nothing, this thing wrecks infantry in half a second, it will still vet in 2 minutes after getting an upgrade, besides already being an instawipe unit.
I find it mindblowing that there are still players complaining about the t70 in its current state, if you think the t70 is op or that it "wipes" retreating units, you need to have your own play checked...
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
3 Dec 2018, 21:48 PM
#10
Posts: 1392
What a hilarious post. The FT halftrack has been nerfed a total of 4 times already. It's the only thing keep Ost alive vs penal hordes which are often backed up by guardsmen. How many more nerfs do you need?
The only Thing Ostheer keeps alive versus penals are MG42 and PnzGrens and late Brummbär. 1st can be counters by everything and love, 2nd can be counters by T70 and 3rd got a massive nerf.
The only problem flames has is, that allii AT can hit it way to easy.
3 Dec 2018, 22:00 PM
#11
Posts: 5279
It stops the 251 from becoming a go-kart after a handful of kills.
With the unit itself I don't see how it's any worse than the T-70 in terms of ridiculous wiping potential. It could do with an adjustment to higher DOT but less direct damage (so same damage against fighting infantry but less wipey on retreats) but nothing more.
IMO the biggest reason of the success of the 251 is that usually Soviets refuse to build T2 in response/anticipation of it and instead always want to stick to Penals and Guards PTRS softcounter just to rush the T-70. Which doesn't end well a lot of the time. It's exactly the same when Ostheer refuses to hardcounter (i.e. Puma) the T-70 and stall for medium armor instead. It's a risk and sometimes it doesn't pay off.
Might have something to do with the then 320mp into JUST teching, let alone if they teched any of the HQ upgrades (another 200+mp into making cons worse volks and 250mp for static model by model healing). Side teching for a zis makes it effectively cost 480mp (2 whole gren squads) which leaves one hell of a hole in your field presence, especially if they went t1 for penals costing a whooping 300mp.
Side teching isn't feasible unless you are wiping enemy squads left and right. You will be more than over run and you can be sure a shit the Maxim isn't going to be a force multiplier that will hold hordes at bay...
#stalinwept
3 Dec 2018, 22:10 PM
#12
Posts: 290
The recent balance patch focused too much on tweaking 2v2 play and dismissed this game breaking unit that has spreading nightmare and discord all over 1v1.
Can we please fix this overperforming vehicle at least quicker than the fanboys can whine about it being overnerfed?
Yes after brumbar time to nerf another vehicle off OST choices. Think we will at some point need to talk of making OST infantry 3 man squads so every single explosion can squad wipe easier.
3 Dec 2018, 22:18 PM
#13
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
The FT halftrack has been nerfed a total of 4 times already..
What does that even mean? Some of the "nerfs" were accompanied by buffs.
The only hilarious thing here is you defending an obviously broken unit on Ostheer's roster. Who saw that coming...
Yes after brumbar time to nerf another vehicle off OST choices.
The brumbarr had very recently gotten overbuffed, it's not like it came out of nowhere.
3 Dec 2018, 22:42 PM
#14
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned.
What does that even mean? Some of the "nerfs" were accompanied by buffs.
The only hilarious thing here is you defending an obviously broken unit on Ostheer's roster. Who saw that coming...
The brumbarr had very recently gotten overbuffed, it's not like it came out of nowhere.
Flame HT hasn't been buffed in years.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
3 Dec 2018, 23:36 PM
#15
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Flame HT hasn't been buffed in years.
Then what 4 nerfs are you referring too? Some of those would've been years ago too genius
3 Dec 2018, 23:42 PM
#16
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
Then what 4 nerfs are you referring too? Some of those would've been years ago too genius
120to 90 munis to nerf the performance, 2nd nerf would be another nerf to garrison dmg, I forgot the 3rd nerf, something to do with armor last nerf is vet gain.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
3 Dec 2018, 23:47 PM
#17
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
120to 90 munis to nerf the performance, 2nd nerf would be another nerf to garrison dmg, I forgot the 3rd nerf, something to do with armor last nerf is vet gain.
So, since the cost of upgrade got lowered AND performance was lowered, the overall cost effectiveness remained the same, therefore it was not a nerf, but a plain adjustment. It would be a nerf if cost remained at 120.
And are you insane to even mention garrison dmg nerf?
Are you so far detached from reality that you thought FHT killing everything in the building within HALF of the burst was fine and balanced?
And no, its armor was never lowered, its vet is mobility only and you aren't really supposed to be at vet3 after single engagement, so that's well warranted one as well.
On the other hand, it got buffed by having a shared vet as well without the upgrade.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Dec 2018, 23:47 PM
#18
Posts: 378
The problems with Flame HT:
-The DPS
-Flames on ground still damages for 30 seconds...
-It can rush out against any infantry or AT gun and wipes retreating units with ease.
How many times did you have to face a flame HT that won't let you retreat to your base?
Well there you have it.
Some might also say that it comes out too early, but I think it wouldn't be a problem if the impact was proportionaly balanced.
-The DPS
-Flames on ground still damages for 30 seconds...
-It can rush out against any infantry or AT gun and wipes retreating units with ease.
How many times did you have to face a flame HT that won't let you retreat to your base?
Well there you have it.
Some might also say that it comes out too early, but I think it wouldn't be a problem if the impact was proportionaly balanced.
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
4 Dec 2018, 00:22 AM
#19
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
So, since the cost of upgrade got lowered AND performance was lowered, the overall cost effectiveness remained the same, therefore it was not a nerf, but a plain adjustment. It would be a nerf if cost remained at 120.
And are you insane to even mention garrison dmg nerf?
Are you so far detached from reality that you thought FHT killing everything in the building within HALF of the burst was fine and balanced?
And no, its armor was never lowered, its vet is mobility only and you aren't really supposed to be at vet3 after single engagement, so that's well warranted one as well.
On the other hand, it got buffed by having a shared vet as well without the upgrade.
High risk, high reward. The vet buff only applies if the HT is not upgraded. We're talking about the flame HT. Just like how the T70 got its lethality nerfed. So if the flamer HT is getting another nerf, T70 should too.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
4 Dec 2018, 01:49 AM
#20
Posts: 5279
High risk, high reward. The vet buff only applies if the HT is not upgraded. We're talking about the flame HT. Just like how the T70 got its lethality nerfed. So if the flamer HT is getting another nerf, T70 should too.
The T70 IS getting a nerf.
Also the T70 costs over 2x the price of the FHT and comes later when more counters are present. I don't think you understand how balance works. If a unit is over performing that unit gets adjusted. A unit doesn't get adjusted because an unrelated unit in a different faction with a different role with different timing gets adjusted. The Cromwell doesn't get adjusted because of the puma, the Katy doesn't get adjusted because of the tiger.
#stalinwept
1 user is browsing this thread:
1 guest
Livestreams
 |
|
|
50 | ||
 |
|
|
126 | ||
 |
|
|
6 | ||
 |
|
|
2 |
Ladders Top 10
-
#Steam AliasWL%Streak
- 1.655231.739+15
- 2.842223.791+5
- 3.35157.860+16
- 4.599234.719+7
- 5.934410.695-1
- 6.278108.720+29
- 7.307114.729+3
- 8.645.928+5
- 9.10629.785+7
- 10.527.881+18
Data provided by
Relic Entertainment
Relic Entertainment
Replay highlight
VS
-
cblanco ★ -
보드카 중대
-
VonManteuffel -
Heartless Jäger
Einhoven Country
Honor it
11
Download
1259