Overnerfed Brummbar. Why am I not surprised?

Not sure what all the hubbub is about... the Brummbar's potency wasn't affected at all. The less range is and armour make it more succeptible to AT guns and tank destroyers since it must now move deeper in enemy territory before attacking, and will get penetrated more often. But it still kills like crazy.

It was definitely broken as all shiet before. I remember one game vs d0ggy and Rowdy my Brummbar had over 100 kills. The allied dedicated AT just could not penetrate the vet3 Brumm often enough.

Plus this Brumm nerf is a decision made by top players. This thread therefore seems even more useless.

If there is a real problem with the Brummbar, please post some high level replays showing how useless it is. Get together a large number of replays and maybe we can draw conclusions from it.

Just to clarify Brumbar has received 5 nerf in the latest patch:

Brumbar

1) -Armour reduced to 240 from 260
2) -Veterancy 2 armour bonus from 1.3 to 1.2
-This equates to 288 armour when vetted as opposed to 320
(vetted SU-85/M36 has now almost 100 chance to penetrate at range 60 )

3)-Bunker Buster Barrage second and third shot scatter distance from 2.5 to 9
4)-Bunker Buster second and third shot scatter from 6 to 10

5)-Brumbar Range from 40 to 35

Just to clarify Brumbar has received 5 nerf in the latest patch:

Brumbar

1) -Armour reduced to 240 from 260
2) -Veterancy 2 armour bonus from 1.3 to 1.2
-This equates to 288 armour when vetted as opposed to 320
(vetted SU-85/M36 has now almost 100 chance to penetrate at range 60 )

3)-Bunker Buster Barrage second and third shot scatter distance from 2.5 to 9
4)-Bunker Buster second and third shot scatter from 6 to 10

5)-Brumbar Range from 40 to 35

"5" is more like "3" nerfs if you aren't trying to be pedantic. But I agree this is true to Relic fashion - if nerfing something they always seem to nerf it multiple ways.

"5" is more like "3" nerfs if you aren't trying to be pedantic. But I agree this is true to Relic fashion - if nerfing something they always seem to nerf it multiple ways.

It is the community, not Relic. And it would be interrestig to know WHO got this ideas for revamp and balance-changes. Because 60% of them are bad.

It is not the problem of German line-units anymore. I can say all Allii tank-hunters are OP, why? Because of Elefant and Jagdtiger and their range. So, why Jackson and Firefly have 60 range? Because of StuGs and Panzer IV? UK PaK has PaK40 stats with quicker rotation and US PaK gets more then enough pen with Vet1 ability.

It is simply stupid, not an a symmetric design...

The rebalancing is becoming a fail. Some nice things, but over the top worse than better. Wrong changes and
mediocre commander-revamp.

So, why Jackson and Firefly have 60 range? Because of StuGs and Panzer IV?

Because allied TDs are designed to pack a punch and not take it for the cost?
Also, Panther needs to be counterable as well and it got 50 as well.
Was Panther 40 range, you'd see allied TDs at 50 with increased mobility.

JT, ele and ISU should have never been in game.

Because allied TDs are designed to pack a punch and not take it for the cost?
Also, Panther needs to be counterable as well and it got 50 as well.
Was Panther 40 range, you'd see allied TDs at 50 with increased mobility.

JT, ele and ISU should have never been in game.

1. That would be logical 2 years ago, when Panther had good armor and less hp. Now it is a worse Jackson with bad path-finding. They should be identical clones on most things. Panther faster, Jackson cheaper. Same AT-performance. Osthees has PaK40 as benefit to compensate the cheaper Jackson.


2. That is true. Only a campaigne-unit.

1. That would be logical 2 years ago, when Panther had good armor and less hp. Now it is a worse Jackson with bad path-finding. They should be identical clones on most things. Panther faster, Jackson cheaper. Same AT-performance. Osthees has PaK40 as benefit to compensate the cheaper Jackson.


2. That is true. Only a campaigne-unit.

The high armor value wasn't really that great against allied TDs, arguably the biggest reason the old Panther was bad was how RNG based it was if a TD penned or not and how low its health value was behind the armor. The health buff gave the Panther much more consistent staying power rather than armor which was more based on if it bounced or not. So technically the armor nerf for a health buff helped the panther against TDs.

The high armor value wasn't really that great against allied TDs, arguably the biggest reason the old Panther was bad was how RNG based it was if a TD penned or not and how low its health value was behind the armor. The health buff gave the Panther much more consistent staying power rather than armor which was more based on if it bounced or not. So technically the armor nerf for a health buff helped the panther against TDs.

2 years ago Jackson was worse, SU85 was worse and ISU152 was worse. That was because I told 2 years ago. ^^

The only hope I see is, when we nerf Ele, Jagdtiger, ISU152 more, so we can finally balance line-unit versus line-unit.

2 years ago Jackson was worse, SU85 was worse and ISU152 was worse. That was because I told 2 years ago. ^^

The only hope I see is, when we nerf Ele, Jagdtiger, ISU152 more, so we can finally balance line-unit versus line-unit.

Yeah back then TDs weren't all that great at their job so the meta was Heavy Tanks and Heavy TDs.

Yeah back then TDs weren't all that great at their job so the meta was Heavy Tanks and Heavy TDs.

Game-foundation was better. After all that small changes CoH2 becomes a real mutant. Somehow it lives… but it is no good life.

Yeah back then TDs weren't all that great at their job so the meta was Heavy Tanks and Heavy TDs.

nope that was garde motor 99%... the funning thing is that someone(we all know him) told the same stories off axsis op and allies up.


nearly the first time in coh2 history there was a unit that can wipe units like the allie's could 1000 times before. Even today there are a so much units that are so easy to play and wipe 4 men units. But that must be asymmetrical balance

I mean some here complaing about minefields with warning signs .... but than said democharges are clearly ok...

So if u nerf T4 OST again than pls buff T3 into Tiger1.... if u go on this way there will be only meta strats left, wich 50 people on this planat can play.

So how about a faster shell speed for the Brum after all these nerfs. Just like the change that the StugE is getting.

How about you start your thread with moderately reasonable ideas like this, rather than suggesting changes you don't like are apart of some grand conspiracy. Might work better...

nope that was garde motor 99%... the funning thing is that someone(we all know him) told the same stories off axsis op and allies up.


nearly the first time in coh2 history there was a unit that can wipe units like the allie's could 1000 times before. Even today there are a so much units that are so easy to play and wipe 4 men units. But that must be asymmetrical balance

I mean some here complaing about minefields with warning signs .... but than said democharges are clearly ok...

So if u nerf T4 OST again than pls buff T3 into Tiger1.... if u go on this way there will be only meta strats left, wich 50 people on this planat can play.

Ah the legendary meta of double t34/85 call in vs Tiger tank meta every game. Another classic.


I shamelessly abused demo charges with mines, oneshotting panthers was the funniest thing ever. However there is no doubt that shit was broken as fuck.

Ost t4 is still potent especially in team games. The Pwefer and Brummbar are the best options for bleeding allied infantry and the Panther is in the best state in a long time after the Panther buffs a while ago. Ost t4 wont being going anywhere anytime soon.

People don't read the entire post. So I'm gonna say it again. I think the Brum only deserved an attack range nerf. THATS IT. The other nerfs are over the top and unwarranted. The range nerf will already make the tank more vulnerable as it can't shoot further than it can see. I DIDN'T SAY THAT THE BRUM WAS PERFECTLY FINE.

Not sure what all the hubbub is about... the Brummbar's potency wasn't affected at all. The less range is and armour make it more succeptible to AT guns and tank destroyers since it must now move deeper in enemy territory before attacking, and will get penetrated more often. But it still kills like crazy.

It was definitely broken as all shiet before. I remember one game vs d0ggy and Rowdy my Brummbar had over 100 kills. The allied dedicated AT just could not penetrate the vet3 Brumm often enough.

Plus this Brumm nerf is a decision made by top players. This thread therefore seems even more useless.

If there is a real problem with the Brummbar, please post some high level replays showing how useless it is. Get together a large number of replays and maybe we can draw conclusions from it.

You had ONE game with 100+ kills vs doggy (doggy's a noob). If I gave u an ISU instead of a Brum, you'd probably get 100+ kills with it too. The ISU has thick armor, better range and no shell impact delay and AP rounds. If you get 100+ kills, it's because you microed well (ie. hold fire and attack ground every goddamn shot, something u don't need to do with a Sherman) and deserved it. It's a Tier 4 unit. A PREMIUM TIER that the other factions don't have. Tier 4 units have somewhat of a comeback mechanic. Ost gets crapped on all early and midgame, if you survive to T4 you should have a threatening unit.

How about you start your thread with moderately reasonable ideas like this, rather than suggesting changes you don't like are apart of some grand conspiracy. Might work better...

How about you and your buddies start telling me how exactly the Brum is ridiculously op. I've compared the performance of Sherman HE to the Brum when both are allowed to free fire. Brum is only better when attack grounding. So if Brum is somewhat comparable to a much cheaper unit how op can it possibly be? You've got no facts just feelings.

People don't read the entire post. So I'm gonna say it again. I think the Brum only deserved an attack range nerf. THATS IT. The other nerfs are over the top and unwarranted. The range nerf will already make the tank more vulnerable as it can't shoot further than it can see. I DIDN'T SAY THAT THE BRUM WAS PERFECTLY FINE.

nope

Everyone complaining about Brum batshit op is just exaggeration. It needed a very small tweak at best.

Just like a few mths back EVERYONE complained 222 op because VonIvan and a few others spammed them. The REAL problem was that allied players couldn't fathom the fact that the 222 wasn't a piece of shit anymore and that a pair of 222s can no longer be stopped by a single zook or pair of ptrs. Just pure disrespect for the 222. About a month later, 222 spam meta was dead because SU and USF players finally located the "buy at gun button" on the screen. So where's the nerf for the 222? I thought so. the 222 wasn't op, it was the allied players being too lazy to adapt when they already have plenty of tools to deal with it.

Same thing can be said with the Brum. People saying that an at gun can't stop a Brum. NO SHIT, SHERLOCK! Do u expect a single pak to stop Kv8 or croc? If you're gonna rely on at guns (cuz somehow u fked up and can't afford a cheap TD when Ost player can afford Brum) GET TWO OF THEM! Secondly the Brum DOESN'T one shot at guns anymore. Not full health crew. If each crewmen are wounded, then yes, a likely one hit. The only crew that get oneshot by brum is raketen crew, because they're bunched up and sherman HE has the same effect on them.

And then there are players that say you cant get the kill on a Brum if it overextends. Not true at all. If u can't get the kill it means the Brum is not overextending or you didn't flank to get rear shots.

nope

Look at these (insert expletive). THey have nothing to say against me but "Nope" A quick look at their playercard and all they play is allies. Less than 50 games as axis. I at least have a few hundred games as Allies.

How many games should a player have for each faction so people would listen to his opinion? Give me exact number please, so it would be like a pass-card, and there were no more posts about it.