Third unit in the Mechanized HQ.
Good joke, Son.
King Tiger - Is it worth buying?
24 Dec 2018, 09:20 AM
#201
Posts: 378
24 Dec 2018, 09:32 AM
#202
Posts: 1217
On high levels the Stuka zu Fuß turns into a gamble rather than a hard counter since decent players can dodge the rockets. So you have to point them on the expected escape route which good players also predict... thus it's just rolling the dice.
Third unit in the Mechanized HQ.
24 Dec 2018, 10:16 AM
#203
Posts: 91
Dodging stuka is a mind game which often leads u to upredictable result. U think u dodge that way, but yor enemy forsees your actions and fires accordingly. And good OKW player often launches stuka so rockets fall on potential retreat path. THis leads to disasters for allies if they just hit retreat button when hear the rockets.
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
24 Dec 2018, 11:10 AM
#204
Posts: 503 | Subs: 1
It's indeed all about mind games and RNG. Rocket artillery has always been a nonsensical RNG fest. Do I wipe multiple vet 3 squads? Or do I make lots of craters around his squads? Even with full vision and closer distance the dice rolls are pivotal.
24 Dec 2018, 11:57 AM
#205
Posts: 3260
Good joke, Son.
You saying the Walking Stuka isn't an indirect fire vehicle with an extremely accurate distance-independent barrage?
24 Dec 2018, 12:00 PM
#206
Posts: 1217
You are missing the point. If you have to rely on pure luck to hard counter something, the game isn't good and another unit should be able to step in. Sure, there are games when you hard counter something with the Stuka but there are other games where you don't hit much. But then you shouldn't lose since this should be a skill based game rather than pure luck.
You saying the Walking Stuka isn't an indirect fire vehicle with an extremely accurate distance-independent barrage?
24 Dec 2018, 12:23 PM
#207
Posts: 3260
You are missing the point. If you have to rely on pure luck to hard counter something, the game isn't good and another unit should be able to step in. Sure, there are games when you hard counter something with the Stuka but there are other games where you don't hit much. But then you shouldn't lose since this should be a skill based game rather than pure luck.
NaOCl said OKW doesn't have an indirect fire vehicle with an extremely accurate distance-independent barrage. I pointed out the Stuka.
I don't think it's particularly reliable at fighting infantry blobs, but that's a far cry from it not existing.
24 Dec 2018, 12:42 PM
#208
Posts: 91
And i think it's pretty reliable in fighting blobs, but it depends on OKW player skill. You must predict enemy movement and place rockets accordingly. I've watched many times in high level games how easily Stuka wins games. Especially in crossing in the woods.
Also OKW have Pz4, which has good AI performance.
Also OKW have Pz4, which has good AI performance.
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
24 Dec 2018, 13:41 PM
#209
Posts: 284 | Subs: 1
Is it stuka rocket is the only one of a kind that have 100% pinpoint accurate barrage ?
The rocket are always hit on the spacific point on the aiming path regaredless the range nor the FoW.h
Most players who use it often know how to aiming the barrage to the most effective result, this units always murder allies team weapons.
On topic, KT is fine but it not the real gamechange unit like used to be.
The rocket are always hit on the spacific point on the aiming path regaredless the range nor the FoW.h
Most players who use it often know how to aiming the barrage to the most effective result, this units always murder allies team weapons.
On topic, KT is fine but it not the real gamechange unit like used to be.
24 Dec 2018, 17:09 PM
#210
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
Is it stuka rocket is the only one of a kind that have 100% pinpoint accurate barrage ?
The rocket are always hit on the spacific point on the aiming path regaredless the range nor the FoW.h
Most players who use it often know how to aiming the barrage to the most effective result, this units always murder allies team weapons.
On topic, KT is fine but it not the real gamechange unit like used to be.
I remember scatter changes in the last years but im not sure.
24 Dec 2018, 17:34 PM
#211
Posts: 5279
Stuka is hit and miss. It needs its lethal area reduced and it's damaging area increased so its more consistent and less outright wipey. It does miss at range but the fear of it not kissing is very very real.
On topic I'd like the KT to be a bit more. Spearhead at vet 1 would be a very interesting direction, it would make it more potent frontally but more vulnerable to flanks from mediums, seems plenty reasonable to me
On topic I'd like the KT to be a bit more. Spearhead at vet 1 would be a very interesting direction, it would make it more potent frontally but more vulnerable to flanks from mediums, seems plenty reasonable to me
#stalinwept
24 Dec 2018, 20:15 PM
#212
Posts: 911
If there only existed an indirect fire vehicle with extremely accurate barrage, regardless of distance, with very potent aoe in OKW tech.
If only units couldn't dodge it by walking 5 feet in any direction.
Imagine my playercard is here
24 Dec 2018, 20:18 PM
#213
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
If only units couldn't dodge it by walking 5 feet in any direction.
Oh but don't worry, at the level he plays they can't.You can literally call to a local pizzeria if you insert his rank into your phone and press green and that isn't exaggeration.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
25 Dec 2018, 05:32 AM
#214
Posts: 91
If only units couldn't dodge it by walking 5 feet in any direction.
Any direction is not an option. Sometimes it works, sometimes u just walk into next rocket. Depends on how u predict your enemy's targeting skill.
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
27 Dec 2018, 14:16 PM
#215
Posts: 378
Any direction is not an option. Sometimes it works, sometimes u just walk into next rocket. Depends on how u predict your enemy's targeting skill.
That is not the definition of reliable.
27 Dec 2018, 14:44 PM
#216
Posts: 1392
King is still good versus infantry. It is a large allrounder like Panzer 4, that is its role (same as Tiger 1 for Ostheer).
The real problem german vehicles have it the range chaos of many vehicles.
Especially since units like Jackson got the HP increase.
I am also no fan of Jagdtiger or Elefant (while Elefant is in the better spot). All fractions should be able to counter the enemy without a Commanders.
Bringing the point:
- Jackson and Firefly doesn't need 60 range, 55 would be enough. (Panther has 50, StuG has 50. So also hull-down would get useful)
[Jagdtiger isn't needed as a hole unit if These tankhunters get a range nerf]
The real problem german vehicles have it the range chaos of many vehicles.
Especially since units like Jackson got the HP increase.
I am also no fan of Jagdtiger or Elefant (while Elefant is in the better spot). All fractions should be able to counter the enemy without a Commanders.
Bringing the point:
- Jackson and Firefly doesn't need 60 range, 55 would be enough. (Panther has 50, StuG has 50. So also hull-down would get useful)
[Jagdtiger isn't needed as a hole unit if These tankhunters get a range nerf]
28 Dec 2018, 05:31 AM
#217
Posts: 91
That is not the definition of reliable.
But what is "reliable"? It's when it wipes squads all the time?
I think Stuka IS reliable - you use it right, you get the results.
Same as pzwerfer or katy.
Or if stuka is unreliable, then pzwerfer and katy are too.https://www.coh2.org/post/create/thread_id/84335/quote/716566#
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
28 Dec 2018, 22:34 PM
#218
Posts: 1660
I think Stuka IS reliable - you use it right, you get the results.
Meanwhile you litterally explained while this doesn't happen...contradicting yourself.
You don't "use it right", you use it and hope the enemy is unlucky and doesn't avoid it. That is a situation in which there's NO WAY to use it right.
That's the very definition of unreliable bs unit. Neither the user nor the receiving end likes this unit for this reason.
28 Dec 2018, 23:52 PM
#219
Posts: 3053
King is still good versus infantry. It is a large allrounder like Panzer 4, that is its role (same as Tiger 1 for Ostheer).
The real problem german vehicles have it the range chaos of many vehicles.
Especially since units like Jackson got the HP increase.
I am also no fan of Jagdtiger or Elefant (while Elefant is in the better spot). All fractions should be able to counter the enemy without a Commanders.
Bringing the point:
- Jackson and Firefly doesn't need 60 range, 55 would be enough. (Panther has 50, StuG has 50. So also hull-down would get useful)
[Jagdtiger isn't needed as a hole unit if These tankhunters get a range nerf]
You realize 5 range is literally the minimum range circle on the Molotov? That’s not even half a tank length, and with the pathfinding/vehicle AI being what it is in this game it’d be way too hard to actually utilize such a small range advantage. Case-in-point: the panther outranges the comet but hardly anyone ever is able to actually take advantage of it because it only very slightly outranges the comet IIRC. Only advantage in a straight slugfest that TDs have is range; removing it would make heavies counter TDs which is not how it’s supposed to work.
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29 Dec 2018, 00:03 AM
#220
Posts: 1392
You realize 5 range is literally the minimum range circle on the Molotov? That’s not even half a tank length, and with the pathfinding/vehicle AI being what it is in this game it’d be way too hard to actually utilize such a small range advantage. Case-in-point: the panther outranges the comet but hardly anyone ever is able to actually take advantage of it because it only very slightly outranges the comet IIRC. Only advantage in a straight slugfest that TDs have is range; removing it would make heavies counter TDs which is not how it’s supposed to work.
Thats is it. 5 isn't much, 10 will become noticeable.
That mean that one tank with micro can use it. Multible tanks will get a problem.
Over all, tanks without turret should still have the range benefit, so SU76 and SU85 should perform better than Firefly and Jackson = stay with 60 range to outrange all german tanks (only Jagdpanzer, Elefant and Jagdtiger are same or more).
Don't forget that Brits normal PaK has same DPS as PaK40 and US-PaK also perform good with heat-ability. Also all large german Cats got nerfed over the time. There is no reason for outranging that much. Also Brummbär got range and armor nerf. PaKs are now more effective.
With the nerf of 55 Jackson outranges as new Tiger by 10 range, after Tiger with Vet2 only 5. StuG and Panther will be outranged by 5.
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