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King Tiger - Is it worth buying?

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5 Dec 2018, 22:25 PM
#121
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Also, its IRL turret traverse was remarkably fast for such a large turret, with only 19 seconds for a full rotation and down to 10 seconds if the engine was pushed to the limit.
For comparison Shermans did it in 15 and most modern MBTs have ~9-12.

Yep.
6 Dec 2018, 06:56 AM
#122
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243


You can have heaviest tank with underpowered engine and overweight turret in WW2 or you can have one with decent mobiliy and turret traverse.

You can't and won't have both.
Not in one package.


U have no clue how fast this turrent traverse was, my friend. IT was really superfast for this time.
6 Dec 2018, 07:07 AM
#123
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243



15-20 range is normal for snares. Not 0

Tested KT

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/344835886

Test #1: All units stationary, range 50

Test #2: Squads moving, KT stationary, range 50

Test #3: KT moving, squads stationary, range 50

Test #4: KT and squads moving, KT avoiding snare

Test #5: KT engine crit speed comparison with moving squad, Jackson attacking.




Sooo...can someone show us where is the moment u think: "my god is this KT OP"

- it need in some parts about 10 shoots to kill ONE squad
- it is horrible slow that infntery can walk with the same speed in front of it..even with no dmg engine
- tds have easy life vs this thing
- it have not the AI and AT performanche (because of low speed and turret traverse) to be good. it is one of the slowest tank, with low range, bad AI and not able to fight armor, because any tank can run away/ shoot from save position/ range


It needs a god dam army for the support....any infntery can walk to it and pfaust it easily
6 Dec 2018, 08:54 AM
#124
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



U have no clue how fast this turrent traverse was, my friend. IT was really superfast for this time.

But I have a clue about balance in PC games.
And a gun that does 50% more damage then most other while having similar reload wouldn't be balanced if it was allowed fast tracking as well.
6 Dec 2018, 08:57 AM
#125
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243


But I have a clue about balance in PC games.
And a gun that does 50% more damage then most other while having similar reload wouldn't be balanced if it was allowed fast tracking as well.


Thats why u wrote that:

"You can have heaviest tank with underpowered engine and overweight turret in WW2 or you can have one with decent mobiliy and turret traverse."

Right?

The KT is the most expansive Unit ingame. So it should more than a church with a lil more AT dmg and some armor more. while it cost the double from it. It should have 50 range, really good AI and faster turret traverse when u look on the price to get.
6 Dec 2018, 08:58 AM
#126
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243


But I have a clue about balance in PC games.
And a gun that does 50% more damage then most other while having similar reload wouldn't be balanced if it was allowed fast tracking as well.


look the vid which was posted here and come back with the time u see: yes this tank can be good alone in the follow situation: [Insert your text here]
6 Dec 2018, 09:01 AM
#127
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243


But I have a clue about balance in PC games.
And a gun that does 50% more damage then most other while having similar reload wouldn't be balanced if it was allowed fast tracking as well.


And pls do one thing:

tell us the cost to get a KT and compare it with other expansive tanks. Than include the lack of caches for okw. and than we talk again about balance, price and performanche from KT. thats why u nearly never see it in Tourenements...
6 Dec 2018, 09:13 AM
#128
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



And pls do one thing:

tell us the cost to get a KT and compare it with other expansive tanks. Than include the lack of caches for okw. and than we talk again about balance, price and performanche from KT. thats why u nearly never see it in Tourenements...

1) Learn to edit your posts
2) 720mp, 260f. Teching isn't exclusive side tech that unlocks exclusively one unit and is a matter of timing the unit, not the cost. Lack of caches is irrelevant, just scavenge wrecks. Don't complain that faction that is supposed to struggle for fuel struggles for fuel.

And you nearly never see it in tournaments, because there is no point to it there, it isn't how tournament level players work, hell Tiger isn't being used in tournaments and its in strongest state it ever was.

You know why is that? Because in tournaments all resources your banking and saving for later are not on the field, doing the work and contrary to your sub 500-700 rank automatch game, on tournament level you need to put constant pressure and you can't do that with 13+cp end tech units (unless its brummbar durrrr hurrrr), because if you don't, opponent will and will push you off the map, as we can clearly see in literally any 1v1 tournament.

Now, VonIvan got it to vet5 couple of weeks ago and KT clearly carried that 2v2 game.
6 Dec 2018, 09:26 AM
#129
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2


King Tiger had the same hp/ton as the Pershing, having a 700hp maybach engine. It also had over 15 degrees per second of turret traverse compared to the pre war levels of the is2 with only 10 degrees.

We already know you have no clue of how these machine performed, from crane reload of the sturmtiger to the "underpower" tiger engine, and realism isn't a balance argument.

Just stick to trying to provoke Vipper will ya ?


The speed of rotation of the IS-2 turret was 13–16 ° per second, that is, a full turn of the tower required 22–28 s.
6 Dec 2018, 09:43 AM
#130
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243


1) Learn to edit your posts
2) 720mp, 260f. Teching isn't exclusive side tech that unlocks exclusively one unit and is a matter of timing the unit, not the cost. Lack of caches is irrelevant, just scavenge wrecks. Don't complain that faction that is supposed to struggle for fuel struggles for fuel.

And you nearly never see it in tournaments, because there is no point to it there, it isn't how tournament level players work, hell Tiger isn't being used in tournaments and its in strongest state it ever was.

You know why is that? Because in tournaments all resources your banking and saving for later are not on the field, doing the work and contrary to your sub 500-700 rank automatch game, on tournament level you need to put constant pressure and you can't do that with 13+cp end tech units (unless its brummbar durrrr hurrrr), because if you don't, opponent will and will push you off the map, as we can clearly see in literally any 1v1 tournament.

Now, VonIvan got it to vet5 couple of weeks ago and KT clearly carried that 2v2 game.


KT cost 280 fuel...

oh..u mean the 5 fuel which u get from a wreck, when u lucky, that ur oponent dont destroy the wreck/ kill u while u try this on the front?
where is the moment from the video where we all can see how great the KT is? Can we get it? All i seen was the KT need about 10 shoots to kill one sqaud in many szenarios...must be unluck, right?
6 Dec 2018, 09:44 AM
#131
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

2) 720mp, 260f. Teching isn't exclusive side tech that unlocks exclusively one unit and is a matter of timing the unit, not the cost. Lack of caches is irrelevant, just scavenge wrecks. Don't complain that faction that is supposed to struggle for fuel struggles for fuel.


The King Tiger costs 280 fuel.

Are you even serious about scavanging? No way is that comparable to caches. In a very good match one can maybe scavange 4-5 things max, giving 20-25 fuel. I'd say the average opportunities per match is closer to 3. That's nothing compared to the constant +3/min that a cache gives.

OKW is not supposed to struggle for fuel since the faction was redesigned. The fact that they will get the 223 next patch is proof of that.
6 Dec 2018, 09:45 AM
#132
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1



The King Tiger costs 280 fuel.

Are you even serious about scavanging? No way is that comparable to caches. In a very good match one can maybe scavange 4-5 things max, giving 20-25 fuel. That's nothing compared to the constant +3/min that a cache gives.

OKW is not supposed to struggle for fuel since the faction was redesigned. The fact that they will get the 223 next patch is proof of that.


I thought scavenge was basically just used to deny at guns and machine guns you dont want.
6 Dec 2018, 11:51 AM
#133
avatar of Van Der Bolt

Posts: 91

Oh, and i thought KT is 260 fuel))) I never take it when i play OKW, not because it's very expensive, but because i just don't need it.
But 280 fuel is too much for this unit. Maybe 250 is fine.
6 Dec 2018, 12:21 PM
#134
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Oh, and i thought KT is 260 fuel))) I never take it when i play OKW, not because it's very expensive, but because i just don't need it.
But 280 fuel is too much for this unit. Maybe 250 is fine.

I'm not getting KT, because I don't like having most of my fuel concentrated into a singular unit(unless its JT). Panther does so much better and one thing I'd consider getting KT for, assisting vs infantry, it doesn't do. Same for IS-2(that moment when KV-2 is better then IS-2). I'm also aggressive in my playstyle, so slow units do not really cut it for me.
6 Dec 2018, 13:55 PM
#135
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243


I'm not getting KT, because I don't like having most of my fuel concentrated into a singular unit(unless its JT). Panther does so much better and one thing I'd consider getting KT for, assisting vs infantry, it doesn't do. Same for IS-2(that moment when KV-2 is better then IS-2). I'm also aggressive in my playstyle, so slow units do not really cut it for me.


Shouldnt the KT a spearhead, which means: attack with them as a frontswine and have an adavantage to get it/ attack with it? But in real coh2 it is a shot on the own knee, u need to repair it more than it is on the front. And also we seen in the video that it cant wipe like it should, have no range to counter armor, is slow as fu** and need babysitting like 1 day old baby on the front
6 Dec 2018, 14:06 PM
#136
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Shouldnt the KT a spearhead, which means: attack with them as a frontswine and have an adavantage to get it/ attack with it? But in real coh2 it is a shot on the own knee, u need to repair it more than it is on the front. And also we seen in the video that it cant wipe like it should, have no range to counter armor, is slow as fu** and need babysitting like 1 day old baby on the front

2 P4s have similar cost and far greater firepower.
Panther+P4 does what KT does, but better and if you repair one, other can be in action, so you always have armor presence.

And KT isn't supposed to wipe anything, if you missed the memo for last 2 years, not even nuke "shoot once a minute" weapons aren't supposed to wipe reliably unless you score pinpoint accurate hit.

It could be more reliable vs inf together with IS-2, but neither is supposed to be wiping anything. Brummbar but with AT capabilities is not needed.
6 Dec 2018, 14:11 PM
#137
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243


2 P4s have similar cost and far greater firepower.
Panther+P4 does what KT does, but better and if you repair one, other can be in action, so you always have armor presence.

And KT isn't supposed to wipe anything, if you missed the memo for last 2 years, not even nuke "shoot once a minute" weapons aren't supposed to wipe reliably unless you score pinpoint accurate hit.

It could be more reliable vs inf together with IS-2, but neither is supposed to be wiping anything. Brummbar but with AT capabilities is not needed.


wouldnt u agree that the KT shouldnt make a bigger fear to infantery ..than we seen in the video...i mean..it totally miss all the time and need nearly a min to solve the job. this isnt nearly a "infantery - fear" even a p4, HEAT Sherman, t34 could do it better...

6 Dec 2018, 14:13 PM
#138
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



wouldnt u agree that the KT shouldnt make a bigger fear to infantery ..than we seen in the video...i mean..it totally miss all the time and need nearly a min to solve the job. this isnt nearly a "infantery - fear" even a p4, HEAT Sherman, t34 could do it better...



I don't even need to watch the vid.
I'm perfectly aware of IS and KT AI issues and I've said multiple times that both need something in that regard as otherwise, they are just AT sluggers only and AT is already covered by other, better suitable, cheaper units.

Less lethal radius and larger AoE, that's what they need, together with some scatter adjustment.
6 Dec 2018, 16:21 PM
#139
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



The speed of rotation of the IS-2 turret was 13–16 ° per second, that is, a full turn of the tower required 22–28 s.


Bullshit, it was 8-10 degrees per second
6 Dec 2018, 16:56 PM
#140
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2



Bullshit, it was 8-10 degrees per second


The turret was driven by an electric rotary mechanism or manually. When the drive was in operation, the maximum rotation speed of the turret reached 2.4 turns per minute.
one source

The speed of rotation of the IS-2 turret was 13-16 ° per second, that is, 22-28 s was required for a full rotation of the turret. The electric drive allowed to turn the turret with the engine shut off and the tank roll to 15 °. The hand drive allowed the turret to be rotated at a roll of 8.3 ° with a force of 16 kgf. For comparison, the German heavy tanks had a hydraulic or manual turret drive. The speed of rotation of the turret hydraulically dependent on the number of revolutions of the engine (that is, when the engine was inactive, the hydraulic drive was useless), being in the range from 5 to 19 ° per second. Reports on studies of German heavy tanks in Kubinka claim that the hydraulic drive is complicated and cumbersome, and its management is inconvenient.
another source
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