How does penetration work

Thanks for the link to Cruzz's file. I eventually found the increase in SU-85 penetration in the patch notes but it's tedious searching for everything that way.

You are welcomed, happy I could help.

I will not even going read personal remarks any more but let me try to explain to you the affects of vet armor bonus and HP bonus for Brumbar and Dozer vs dedicated TDs.

A vet 0 Stug firing on vet 0 Dozer needs 5 penetrating shots and at least 4 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 5 penetrating shots in a row is 44%.

The vet 2 stug firing on vet 2 Dozer now needs 6 penetrating and at lest 5 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 6 penetrating shots in a row is 38%.

A vet 0 Su-85 firing on vet 0 Brumbar need 5 penetrating shots and at least 4 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 5 penetrating shots in a row is 66%.

The vet 2 Su-85 firing on vet 2 Brumabr still need 5 penetrating and at lest 4 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 5 penetrating shots in a row vs the higher armor with the higher penetration it gets, is now 100%.

I will not even going read personal remarks any more but let me try to explain to you the affects of vet armor bonus and HP bonus for Brumbar and Dozer vs dedicated TDs.

A vet 0 Stug firing on vet 0 Dozer needs 5 penetrating shots and at least 4 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 5 penetrating shots in a row is 44%.

The vet 2 stug firing on vet 2 Dozer now needs 6 penetrating and at lest 5 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 6 penetrating shots in a row is 38%.

A vet 0 Su-85 firing on vet 0 Brumbar need 5 penetrating shots and at least 4 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 5 penetrating shots in a row is 66%.

The vet 2 Su-85 firing on vet 2 Brumabr still need 5 penetrating and at lest 4 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 5 penetrating shots in a row vs the higher armor with the higher penetration it gets, is now 100%.

Can you now do the same, but instead of StuG using Panther now, so we have actual top tier TD potential compared to top tier TD potential instead of biased T3 vs T4 units comparison?

StuG is closer to SU-76 then SU-85 in terms of both, cost and performance and you bloody well know it.
Having a turret or not is 100% irrelevant, cost is also 100% irrelevant here, because SU-85 is supposed to counter heavily armored targes, while StuG is most certainly not, that's Panthers job, so again, do the same comparison using correct unit for the context, the Panther. If you REALLY insist on using StuG as staple of your argument, then do the numbers for its equivalent, SU-76 against brummbar and report factual, unbiased results.

It would also be awesome if you stopped using these comparisons that do not involve same tier/role units and actually stop invoking observation bias in people who might not know better. You do these mental gymnastics all the time to prove your point without comparing units that actually should be compared.

SU-76 and StuG serve purpose of countering meds.
SU-85 and Panther serve purpose of countering heavies.

Any kind of cross comparisons serve no other purpose then to invoke observation bias in people you try to prove wrong.

Can you now do the same, but instead of StuG using Panther now, so we have actual top tier TD potential compared to top tier TD potential instead of biased T3 vs T4 units comparison?

My advice stop being lazy and do it yourself, but what the heck.

A vet 0 Panther firing on vet 0 Dozer needs 5 penetrating shots and at least 4 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 5 penetrating shots in a row is 100%.

The vet 2 Panther firing on vet 2 Dozer now needs 6 penetrating and at lest 5 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 6 penetrating shots in a row is still 100% but the Panther needs an extra reload.

Actually a vet 2 Panther need more time to kill the vet 2 Dozer.

Now if Dozer got armor buff it would probably not make in worse position while if Brumbar got 160 instead 1.2 Armor it would be in better place vs vet 2 SU-85.

Now have nice day.



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Thanks for the link to Cruzz's file. I eventually found the increase in SU-85 penetration in the patch notes but it's tedious searching for everything that way.

https://coh2db.com/stats/

You kinda proved his point.

95% chance to pen at far range is pretty much exactly in line with what he was trying to say. You might, might bounce a shot (1/20 chance is a chance I guess). I'm not sure what other conclusion one would come to given the data you yourself provided.

My advice stop being lazy and do it yourself, but what the heck.

Nothing to do with lazyness, just me trying to get rid your THE worst habit, comparing apples to oranges to prove your artificial truths when you're wrong.

And thank you for doing so.

You wouldn't compare T-70 to P4 and try to justify T-70 being too weak in AT against mediums and its equally pointless to do that level of comparison with TDs, comparing SU-86/jackson/FF to anything below panther.

Nothing to do with lazyness, just me trying to get rid your THE worst habit, comparing apples to oranges to prove your artificial truths when you're wrong.

And thank you for doing so.

You wouldn't compare T-70 to P4 and try to justify T-70 being too weak in AT against mediums and its equally pointless to do that level of comparison with TDs, comparing SU-86/jackson/FF to anything below panther.

Yes you are being lazy and rude. And try to get you fact straight. I did not compare anything and I drew no conclusion, I simply provide raw stats that where requested and I explained how armor works.

You can chose what you like to compare and you draw you own conclusion but the fact remains that vet 2 armor bonus Brumbar gets, means nothing vs a SU-85 vet 2. Actually it there little difference if it Brumbar vet 0 or vet3. It will be hit and penetrate with 100% chance even at range 60 by a vet 2 Su-85. Some goes for the Panther. At this point the armor value of T4 tanks has been lowered so mush and penetration values of these TD has been increases so much that armor offer no protection , neither does their target size.

On the other hand the HP Dozer, KV-2 and KV-8 get as veterancy bonus actually does matter vs the Panther that needs an extra shot to kill them.

Feel free to use you own stat, to do you own analysis and come up with own conclusions but pls spear the personal comments.

https://coh2db.com/stats/

Thanks!