USF Tech Changes Mod Changelog

Stuart now comes 10F cheaper. 50cal and M1 are great support teams now easily accessed. Riflemen are not being changed.

You need to be careful about these potential power spikes. You're cushioning USFs rough early game and not taking away any of their (absurd) power in the lategame. The jackson still dominates, the pershing is the best heavy in the game, HE sherman and scott are both very respectable.

ATG is 40 fuel cheaper if you decide to go Lt and there potentially one less riflemen squad to be build. Everything else is pretty much equal. Now I agree since Lvs are so terrible there isn't much appealing to unlock them but it isn't going to make USF any stronger than it is now. If USF doesn't have Lvs they're more subject to bleed.

I mean the only power spike change is the Lt/Cpt hitting the field 1 minute earlier but that's not a tremendous buff that's going to put USF above Ostheer or OKW, just at their level.

IMO this isn't the teching fault but rather that the Scott (especially 2 of them) with vet becomes pretty much as OP as the Brummbär. At least in team games. With their range and smoke they become nearly impossible to deal with (except for Raketten cheese or a tank dive) while being very wipey.

Other than that I think this tech is pretty good, it gives the daredevils all the tools they need to stall for fast Major/tanks and it gives people reasonable access to whatever they like to play with without locking themselves out of core units.

If it is not the Scott it will be Dozer, the easy8 they M10 or something else. There is little reason to invest in anything if you have heal, ATG, mortar HMG and 1 squad with BAR and 1 squad with bazooka you have very little reason to delay your armor and another squad with cheap Off maps.

There'll probably a rough edge or two to iron out, but this'll hopefully push USF into the SOV/OST/OKW tier.

There'll probably a rough edge or two to iron out, but this'll hopefully push USF into the SOV/OST/OKW tier.

Why don't I see any mention of the UKF here, is it because the snare for their Sappers is only a half fix for the Army?

First we turn Soviets into USF by modeling Penal after Riflemen.
Then we tun OKW into USF by modeling VG after Riflemen.
Now we turn USF into OKW by restructuring their tech.

Can we change we make all faction the same and change the name of the game to Age of empires?

Ok, give resource penalty to OKW again, fair?

it was a "faction concept", isn't it?

Why don't I see any mention of the UKF here, is it because the snare for their Sappers is only a half fix for the Army?

The snare's a huge step in the right direction, but they need some practical mobile non-doc indirect fire and some adjustments to the Firefly in my opinion.

Any Chance Airborne might get some adjustments? This Update makes one the main attractions of the doc negated.

A slight cut to the price of the airdropped team weapons should do it. Pathfinder HMGs and AT guns are pretty strong.

One thing I would suggest is shunting some manpower over from Major. 150 MP for an officer means 300 MP for both. That's very cost-efficient infantry.

Any Chance Airborne might get some adjustments? This Update makes one the main attractions of the doc negated.

At the same time though, paratroopers and pathfinders become more attractive. You usually dont have room for them because youre forced to get so many infantry squads. With the officer potentially arriving as the 3rd purchased unit, paratrooper builds might be less awkward.

Any Chance Airborne might get some adjustments? This Update makes one the main attractions of the doc negated.

+1

The mod is a big improvement over the standard tech structure. I think the costs might need a bit of fine tuning (slightly more manpower for the LT & CPT?) but otherwise it's great. The 0.5 tiers still have the "requires lieutenant dispatched" verbiage on them instead of needs upgrade.

I mean the only power spike change is the Lt/Cpt hitting the field 1 minute earlier but that's not a tremendous buff that's going to put USF above Ostheer or OKW, just at their level.

True, although I cannot help but recall that the whole reason Ostheer has a t0 MG42 was because of the effect of officers hitting the field.

A minute sooner is not insignificant for establishing early game field presence. That and a 150mp captain squad by 60 fuel may revisit that initial pacing issue between USF and Ostheer. Time and testing will tell.

I feel like a 50 fuel captain with ATG/Pak Howie and a 'side-tech' for the Stuart, not AAHT, may work. At 20 fuel it would not change the pacing of the Stuart while allowing ATGs and Pak Howies a sooner field presence.

The LT could keep these proposed changes, but the 0.5 tech could unlock the AAHT and the M20. The proposed changes for the M20 are necessary for that unit regardless of teching adjustments.

This would grant faster officers, as is apparently so desired, and a cheaper way to go both LT and Captain without affecting the pacing of Major tier or any vehicle. The cost difference for both LT and Captain without any half-step teching would be 10 more fuel.

Which is already shaved off the cost of grenades.

I have been giving it a try and some early feedback.

About teching. There is a lot of possibilities I'll say, which is good:
- Lieutenant first seem to feet perfectly into 2xRE 2xRM + Lieutenant. I mean, there is no down time, you'll have the fuel right when you also have the manpower after the 2nd Riflesquad. 2x RE gives a lot of map control early game to bring the lieutenant really fast.
- 3xRM into lieutenant bring also interesting decision making. In fact you can wait a bit with 2xRM and call your lieutenant as 3rd unit but you'll be on inferiority until the lieutenant hit the field. Note that if you decide to build a 3rd RM after the lieutenant, he'll hit the field at the same time that the Lieutenant.
- 3xRM into lieutenant, you can also go the safe way and build your lieutenant after the 3rd RM.

About Lieutenant upgrade, the upgrade is available as soon as the lieutenant hit the field, 50 munition so it is a decision to take to upgrade it asap or wait to use the munition later.

About T1.5, available right when the lieutenant hit the field, 20 fuel. M20 is not far behind in fact and you'll have to considere if you want your early BAR on the lieutenant or skirt on the M20. Nice decision making option.

Fast HMG.50 will definitively be a good option to counter volks spam.

I don't know about having exchanged Stuart with M15 in this configuration you can have now HMG+M1 for 60 fuel. I think the only reason to go T2.5 would be for the pak howitzer. Hmg+Stuart is a really strong combo.

Obviously need more testing.

I feel like the Lieutenant upgrade (about the BAR) will also depend on your enemy. Against OKW, BAR will be the option because USF needs firepower, while against Ostheer we will see the grenade upgrade a lot more now as MGs are a direct threat.

Ok, give resource penalty to OKW again, fair?

it was a "faction concept", isn't it?

If we come to the decision that we want different mechanics in faction and we can make it work yes why not.

My point is simply.

Either keep faction unique and try to balance them or make all faction similar now and try to balance them.

But pls no more complete game redesigns every six month followed by six month of game being out of balance because of the new redesign.

I really do not want to see any more "penal to DSK to Sherman", because we decide to redesign Soviet. Every time a faction is redesign half the work done so far in balance goes down the drain.

If we are going to redesign USF lets also redesign UKF and possibly OKW and get it over with. That way we can at least have only 6 month of chaos instead of 18.

Dream is comin true
Finally a USF where u make other decisions than just which rifle squad should u put the BAR on.

Lets admit it, the AA HT and Pack Howie half tech are blatantly a better option than an M20 and Stuart, but other than that, its gonna make than faction way more interesting.

Another change for the few 1v1 "pro" crowd left in the community. COOL!!!!

Meanwhile the 4v4/3v3 maplist continues the total garbage with the same maps for almost 4 years. I think the majority CoH players came from here, right?

Meanwhile the OST and Soviets continues with commanders overlaping. I know about the commanders revamp and the new commanders patch, but for OST and SOV its not enough.

Nice catch on spending the few Relic time and manpower resources for this game.


GG for who convinced Andy and others on that.

really like it i dont know why people saying about stuff like pershing is op or jackson is beast so pls dont fix that faction lol stupid thinking, anyway for me these changes are great nothing to add. Maybe rifles should have only one bar after these changes but thats just suggestion.

At the same time though, paratroopers and pathfinders become more attractive. You usually dont have room for them because youre forced to get so many infantry squads. With the officer potentially arriving as the 3rd purchased unit, paratrooper builds might be less awkward.

well, in one hand i'm totally agree with you. Paratroopers and Pathfinders should be more accessible BUT again this doc changes basicly negates 2 doctrinal call in units hmg and AT gun. There is little reason to keep this unit in a doctrine after those tier changes gonna be implemented. PLus there is a recon doctrine which drops paratroopers and AT gun. All above call-ins in doctrines were in game becouse there were wholes in USF teching system. After implementation of above changes they should be rework.

There is few ideas how could it be fix: for example add medical drop (like in lufftwafe commander) and AI strafe (like in calliope commander) or just redesign the AT gun and hmg that gonna be way diffrent in stats than those in basic tiers.

Anyway, sadly those tier changes has downsides. Fixing them have to inpact some of USF commanders which i guess it's out of scope :/

Another change for the few 1v1 "pro" crowd left in the community. COOL!!!!

Meanwhile the 4v4/3v3 maplist continues the total garbage with the same maps for almost 4 years. I think the majority CoH players came from here, right?

Meanwhile the OST and Soviets continues with commanders overlaping. I know about the commanders revamp and the new commanders patch, but for OST and SOV its not enough.

Nice catch on spending the few Relic time and manpower resources for this game.


GG for who convinced Andy and others on that.

How exactly do tech changes only affect 1v1s in your mind?

Maps is basically an issue that can't be fixed, because it takes a huge amount of time to design large 3v3 and 4v4 maps and apparently there never was much testing or feedback from the community, only whining. Which is why mappers have given up.

I don't see how overlapping commanders is much of an issue when they have about 20 each anyway. If there's one issue with commanders it's that certain factions had too few viable ones (mainly OKW, USF and UKF) which is being corrected in the upcoming revamp patch.

I think it's important to keep team games in mind too. Anti air is a lot more important in team games, as is indirect fire.

Could you guys maybe change PACK howi already?
T0 mortar makes it irrelevant, so does T3 scott.

Could you just remove auto fire, increase barrage shells to 5-7 and make it into a proper USF mobile arty this way?
Obviously, barrage performance would be as it is now, just remove auto attack and add some more shells so its worth considering the unit, adjust cost if needed.

It would finally provide USF a cooldown only, non doctrinal barrage weapon that all the other factions have that wouldn't be awkward major arty.

PACK howi atm is not needed and irrelevant, 2 more cost efficient units make it irrelevant and it doesn't serve any unique role in USF army.

My point is simple:
Either full implement similar faction now and start re-balancing.
or
Balance each faction according to individual strengths and weakness.

But PLS stop redesign the game every 6 months.

Each faction used to be balanced like that.
It was unbalanced, because it can't be balanced when different factions have different strengths at different game stages and these "unique strengths" are impossible to be made all game lasting (how is USF strong early infantry presence going to transfer into late game? Why should Ost have armor advantage, letting them close the game against USF just by outlasting them? etc.)

If redesign is needed to keep the game AND ALL the factions relevant, then so be it.

The redesigns happen, because what we had previously DID NOT WORKED.
I'd rather have redesigned and balanced game, then do your beloved "stick to old, irrelevant, proven in action not working design".

Stop clinging to old, obviously broken and not working solutions.

I for one welcome very much this new USF half tier structure, it worked perfectly well for PE in CoH1, it allowed for varied build orders and its flexible enough to adjust unit timings or combinations easily and most importantly, its unique in CoH2 as closest to that tech is what UKF has and UKF still is unique enough with powerful but exclusive options.