Melee combat in CoH3 inspired by Iron Harvest?

Hello, so I stumbled upon this Dev blog from the developers of Iron Harvest today: https://kingart-games.com/article/50-iron-harvest-devblog-7-november-2018

There is a mention of Melee Combat and sync kills/finishers like in Dawn of War and Dawn of War 2 as I imagine it which brought up the question in my mind, what about CoH3?

And by that I mean it's already sort of present in a couple mods for the original CoH so perhaps it can make it's way to CoH3 officially this time.

I'm making this topic to gather some feedback and opinions on the idea, how would it work, why is it a good or bad idea and so forth.

I personally think that having the option to bayonet charge in the current games would make more sense when infantry are very close to each other instead of shooting at a couple feet distance from one another, plus it would create some special twist on close quarter combat and some units would of course excel better at it than others, like for example I'd imagine it Shock Troops. Altho I'm not really sure how the sync kills/finishers would to work exactly without being a balance nightmare.

Cheers and have a nice day.

+ The game would have another gameplay mechanic, therefore more depth
+ Immersive, cool to look at, makes more sense with bolt action rifles

- Pure balancing hell
Theres already a hard time dealing with DPS and indirect fire damage. Now they´d have to add a third side to those two.
Making simply every single model equal in melee - no matter the squad- would seem like an easy way out, but then u´d have that problem of the most expendable, cheapest, non-combat, builder unit waitin around a corner and effectively halting an advance of the most specialized, expensive elite squad in the game

Tough choice, really

Actually their is already a knife weapon in COH 2 that if I understand correctly was meant to be used by commandos. That where the sprint while camo bonus came from. Unfortunately someone forgot to changes when the knife was scraped as an idea.

If you go to weapon/test/melee you will find a mechete with range 0-3 and damage 80.

+ The game would have another gameplay mechanic, therefore more depth
+ Immersive, cool to look at, makes more sense with bolt action rifles

- Pure balancing hell
Theres already a hard time dealing with DPS and indirect fire damage. Now they´d have to add a third side to those two.
Making simply every single model equal in melee - no matter the squad- would seem like an easy way out, but then u´d have that problem of the most expendable, cheapest, non-combat, builder unit waitin around a corner and effectively halting an advance of the most specialized, expensive elite squad in the game

Tough choice, really

Yeah I'm really interested in how the Iron Harvest devs are gonna pull it off, I'm still on the fence of getting the game since it's a lot of dought and they're also making it on the Unity engine, as well as it being on consoles and them now also looking for a Publisher which might mean the same thing as SEGA's relationship with Relic, as in financial reliance thus somebody else having creative control so I'm a bit worried on that.

Actually their is already a knife weapon in COH 2 that if I understand correctly was meant to be used by commandos. That where the sprint while camo bonus came from. Unfortunately someone forgot to changes when the knife was scraped as an idea.

If you go to weapon/test/melee you will find a mechete with range 0-3 and damage 80.

Yeah I know of the machete and 3 other weapons/items that are scrapped/unused. I am guessing they tried melee and towing of AT guns before abandoning it as well.

The problem with it being in CoH versus IH is that CoH is set in the 1940s, where military tactics had evolved to define melee combat as the exception, whereas in the 1920s of IH, trench warfare was still a thing, and clearing trenches with bayonets was common practice.

Wouldn't mind seeing some form of melee combat in CoH3, but it should be implemented in a different way than IH IMO.

good for an idea but i dont think will happen due to balance

Doesn't they mean melee combat as in mechs?

One possibility is that it could just be cosmetic. A unit does the same amount of damage as if he was shooting, it just has different animations. Hydralisks in Starcraft II do this. That'd look nice without upsetting balance.

If melee units were a thing, I think they'd perform too much like SMG units. I think there should be special effects associated with melee to give it a unique role. Charges, suppression, debuffs to the unit that got caught off guard, things like that. It would be a nice thing to have if a Japanese faction ever happens, which, considering the lack of tanks, probably won't.

The problem with it being in CoH versus IH is that CoH is set in the 1940s, where military tactics had evolved to define melee combat as the exception, whereas in the 1920s of IH, trench warfare was still a thing, and clearing trenches with bayonets was common practice.

Wouldn't mind seeing some form of melee combat in CoH3, but it should be implemented in a different way than IH IMO.

Yeah I just imagine it as an alternative to just face hugging another enemy unit with rifles like right now.

As in it wouldn't be an ideal situation to get in close and personal, like in the real world, but if there is no other way it's there, and it's an option. Plus like I said specialist troops, like the Shocks, could be given stats as a unique close quarter combat unit that also excels in melee combat.

Doesn't they mean melee combat as in mechs?

Well maybe if you weren't so lazy you would have read the dev blog to which I posted the link for.

One possibility is that it could just be cosmetic. A unit does the same amount of damage as if he was shooting, it just has different animations. Hydralisks in Starcraft II do this. That'd look nice without upsetting balance.

If melee units were a thing, I think they'd perform too much like SMG units. I think there should be special effects associated with melee to give it a unique role. Charges, suppression, debuffs to the unit that got caught off guard, things like that. It would be a nice thing to have if a Japanese faction ever happens, which, considering the lack of tanks, probably won't.

Thinking about it now this also works yes.

If they find it too hard to balance they should keep it as a cosmetical thing. I'd love to see a Total War style battle on the fields of WW2 with melee, even if it's entirely cosmetical.

Well maybe if you weren't so lazy you would have read the dev blog to which I posted the link for.

I did later, but was too lazy to edit post.

worked in DoW because there were no misses and no RNG

Here: pls not, not fitting at all!

I think it'd be simple to do. Make melee itself decently quick and based on simple hit animations like Medieval2 total war/DOW. Make the deaths rely on finisher animations that can be interrupted by explosions and other damage sources. Make better units have a higher chance of dodging and such, so a unit like grenadiers can easily beat some conscripts unless its overwhelming.

I think making it a gamble and generally inferior to ranged combat would do it best justice in a post-ww1 CoH game.

I always thought a mechanic for storming garrisoned building would be more valuable for the CoH series than melee. Though they're rather closely related.

I don't think it really adds much depth besides visuals, because basically the outcome would be the same as right now with units close to each other fighting it out at arms' length. Instead of rifle fire it's replaced by hand to hand combat animations that basically have the same role.

So in the end it would be cool to have but not really a priority IMO. I would much rather see more advanced garrison fighting mechanics, such as units being able to enter to contest or SMG units having a distinct advantage up close.

Storming of garrisons is also a nice idea I haven't thought about.

What if troops engaged on melee combat are forced to stick together, only retreating you can split them.

I liked the garrison storming idea too

What if troops engaged on melee combat are forced to stick together, only retreating you can split them.

I liked the garrison storming idea too

You mean like pinning people in combat? Yeah that could work as an alternative to MGs.

In the dev notes they also reference vaulting as being added and necessary so Troops can jump into enemy trenches to engage in melee.

Just make melee combat visual only.

Make it exactly the same as shooting point blank in CoH2, but with visual indicators for fighting, then you could have melee combat to control garrisons, similar to napoleon total war.