Close the Pocket Question

Does someone know how this ability exactly works?

-Do you need Line of sight when activated? or does LoS increase accuracy of shells?

-Does it attack all allied Units, or Sector points, and with what? (Infantry with mortars, or Rockets, Tanks with railway etc.?

Does it get stronger the longer an Allied unit is within the pocket?

Does someone know how this ability exactly works?

-Do you need Line of sight when activated? or does LoS increase accuracy of shells?

-Does it attack all allied Units, or Sector points, and with what? (Infantry with mortars, or Rockets, Tanks with railway etc.?

Does it get stronger the longer an Allied unit is within the pocket?

As far as I know:
The ability has 2 attacks, mortars attack on allied sector points, artillery shells on all units in units with sector that are out of supply with not need of LOS on this units, I think it does not get stronger with time it is quite powerful to begin with.

Although I have to check the editor for more details.

As far as my testing goes:

- Once the ability is activated, it gives like 30 (?) line of sight around cut-off enemy sector points (flags). It doesn't fire on units that aren't revealed.

- All frontline sectors get bombarded with light mortar fire (any enemy sector that borders your sectors). These sectors only get a white outline and no LoS bonus, while cut-off sectors get a white outline and flash from orange to red.

- All cut-off enemy sectors get bombarded with arty, rockets, and stuka bombs.

- Neutral territory is not affected by the ability.

- If the enemy captures a new sector, it won't get bombarded. Also, all arty on affected sectors stop once the enemy reconnects them or when you neutralize them.

- The ability doesn't seem to ramp up, but remains consistent. There does seem to be a certain rhythm with arty -> rockets -> stuka throughout, but it's still pretty random.

- The ability doesn't seem to have a preference for infantry or tanks, but randomly decides who to arty with what.


You'd have to dig in the mod tools for the real stats tho.

Edit: apparently no railway arty gets fired according to AEgion, so removed that.

I am going to be exact which may be confusing.

You do need line of sight when activated for the barrages. Cut off sectors are revealed for the duration so there is self spotting. The reveal area is has a 30 unit radius around the strategic nodes. All barrages taregts all "enemy" and not "strategic_node." It will not target the strategic points itself but will still target cashes. Everything is constant in firepower and damage.

Front line barrages:
grw34_81mm_mortar_barrage_mp
(Standard mortar)
two rounds
Scatter Radius of 20
Every 10 seconds

Cut off sectors:
sector_105mm_gun
(this is the same round used be OKW zeroing arty and assault artillery)
3 rounds
Scatter Radius of 1
Every 5-10 seconds

panzerwerfer_rockets_mp
(standard panzerwerfer rockets)
10 rounds
Scatter Radius of 15
Every 5-10 seconds

stuka_500_lb_bomb_nodecap
(old stuka dive bomb with in the infantry instant dead effect, can not decap points.)
1 round (after 8 seconds, has a dive bomb sound effect)
Scatter Radius of 5
Every 16-20 seconds

As far as my testing goes:

- Once the ability is activated, it gives like 30 (?) line of sight around cut-off enemy sector points (flags). It doesn't fire on units that aren't revealed.

- All frontline sectors get bombarded with light mortar fire (any enemy sector that borders your sectors). These sectors only get a white outline and no LoS bonus, while cut-off sectors get a white outline and flash from orange to red.

- All cut-off enemy sectors get bombarded with arty, rockets, and stuka bombs.

- Neutral territory is not affected by the ability.

- If the enemy captures a new sector, it won't get bombarded. Also, all arty on affected sectors stop once the enemy reconnects them or when you neutralize them.

- The ability doesn't seem to ramp up, but remains consistent. There does seem to be a certain rhythm with arty -> rockets -> stuka throughout, but it's still pretty random.

- The ability doesn't seem to have a preference for infantry or tanks, but randomly decides who to arty with what.


You'd have to dig in the mod tools for the real stats tho.

Edit: apparently no railway arty gets fired according to AEgion, so removed that.

I am going to be exact which may be confusing.

You do need line of sight when activated for the barrages. Cut off sectors are revealed for the duration so there is self spotting. The reveal area is has a 30 unit radius around the strategic nodes. All barrages taregts all "enemy" and not "strategic_node." It will not target the strategic points itself but will still target cashes. Everything is constant in firepower and damage.

Front line barrages:
grw34_81mm_mortar_barrage_mp
(Standard mortar)
two rounds
Scatter Radius of 20
Every 10 seconds

Cut off sectors:
sector_105mm_gun
(this is the same round used be OKW zeroing arty and assault artillery)
3 rounds
Scatter Radius of 1
Every 5-10 seconds

panzerwerfer_rockets_mp
(standard panzerwerfer rockets)
10 rounds
Scatter Radius of 15
Every 5-10 seconds

stuka_500_lb_bomb_nodecap
(old stuka dive bomb with in the infantry instant dead effect, can not decap points.)
1 round (after 8 seconds, has a dive bomb sound effect)
Scatter Radius of 5
Every 16-20 seconds

Tank you a Lot guys.

So you Do need Line of sight.

That makes the Ability very weak in my opnion

A very weak ability? It can potentially kill the entire enemy team's armies for 200 munitions. The LoS bonus around cut-off enemy sectors is - on most maps - enough to self spot most of the enemy forces. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJAz13BlFcU

And even if it doesn't kill as much, it forces the enemy to give up all targeted sectors or risk destruction. No other 200 muni ability can do this.


The only thing that makes it balanced is that it's so hard to pull off.

Does someone know how this ability exactly works?

-Do you need Line of sight when activated? or does LoS increase accuracy of shells?

-Does it attack all allied Units, or Sector points, and with what? (Infantry with mortars, or Rockets, Tanks with railway etc.?

Does it get stronger the longer an Allied unit is within the pocket?

You do not need LOS. I don't know if LOS increases accuracy, but you lose everything if you leave it in a detached area so the question isn't very relevant.

It attacks all allied units, IIRC even buildings.

It does ramp up over time.

There's only a few maps where it isn't too hard to pull off (Trois Ponds is probably the easiest). It is pretty much an I-win button if you can pull it off, but it's really hard to do without help from a teammate. If you can't use Close the Pocket then you're stuck with an otherwise mediocre commander.

Well, it gives its own spotting ability, so yeah I guess you do "need" it, but it's provided automatically (mostly, anyway).

I don't think it's weak, so much as it's a gimmick/sucker punch.

A very weak ability? It can potentially kill the entire enemy team's armies for 200 munitions. The LoS bonus around cut-off enemy sectors is - on most maps - enough to self spot most of the enemy forces. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJAz13BlFcU

And even if it doesn't kill as much, it forces the enemy to give up all targeted sectors or risk destruction. No other 200 muni ability can do this.


The only thing that makes it balanced is that it's so hard to pull off.

THat video is 3,5 years old....

You do not need LOS. I don't know if LOS increases accuracy, but you lose everything if you leave it in a detached area so the question isn't very relevant.

It attacks all allied units, IIRC even buildings.

It does ramp up over time.

There's only a few maps where it isn't too hard to pull off (Trois Ponds is probably the easiest). It is pretty much an I-win button if you can pull it off, but it's really hard to do without help from a teammate. If you can't use Close the Pocket then you're stuck with an otherwise mediocre commander.

That basically contradicts completely to twhat the first posters said...

THat video is 3,5 years old....

And the ability hasn't changed afaik so it's still relevant. It's an example anyway that shows that the LOS provided by the cut-off strategic points is - on most maps - enough to kill most enemies by itself, because 30 distance is a large part of the entirety of the average sector.

That basically contradicts completely to twhat the first posters said...

Welcome to the coh2.org forums

That basically contradicts completely to twhat the first posters said...

No it doesn't:

You do need line of sight when activated for the barrages. Cut off sectors are revealed for the duration so there is self spotting.

The person you quoted said you don't need LOS in the unattached sectors. That is correct, because the ability provides it for you. It gives you 5 less sight than you would have if a unit was standing next to the flag of a point, for ALL the points that are cutoff.

Like all expensive abilities, it can do nothing, or an insane amount of damage.

Also, how does needing LOS make an expensive ability bad? SCAS needs LOS, and its one of the best abilities in the game.

No it doesn't:

Read again

You do not need LOS. I don't know if LOS increases accuracy, but you lose everything if you leave it in a detached area so the question isn't very relevant.

You do need LoS, (which the ability partly provides). Go in cheatmode and place some enemy units in the FoW to see they won't get fired on if they don't get revealed.

It does ramp up over time.

It doesn't ramp up, see AEgion's post.

As far as I know:
The ability has 2 attacks, mortars attack on allied sector points, artillery shells on all units in units with sector that are out of supply with not need of LOS on this units, I think it does not get stronger with time it is quite powerful to begin with.

Although I have to check the editor for more details.

Im pretty sure it does increase power overtime. I might be wrong since I dont know that stats but from experience the last few seconds will wipe almost anything within the effected sectors.

Read again

I read it right the first time. If the ability provides 30 LoS in every sector that isn't attached, then that doesn't qualify as "needing line of sight". Areas that aren't revealed become revealed, without any units around.

Meanwhile SCAS, P-47s, Hawkers, all provide no vision and only target units you can already see. Seems pretty easy to differentiate what needs vision and doesn't.

I read it right the first time. If the ability provides 30 LoS in every sector that isn't attached, then that doesn't qualify as "needing line of sight". Areas that aren't revealed become revealed, without any units around.

In your unique definition it might, the fact is however: enemies that are not within line of sight in the cut-off territory won't get bombarded.

I don't care if 99% of the enemies are spotted because of the LoS around enemy points, that's not what this was about. There is a difference between needing LoS for the arty to work and self-spotting.

Compare:

You do not need LOS. I don't know if LOS increases accuracy, but you lose everything if you leave it in a detached area so the question isn't very relevant.

To:

No it doesn't. [...] The person you quoted (EffenNoobie) said you don't need LOS in the unattached sectors. That is correct, because the ability provides it for you.

You switched to a different topic.

In your unique definition it might, the fact is however: enemies that are not within line of sight in the cut-off territory won't get bombarded.

I don't care if 99% of the enemies are spotted because of the LoS around enemy points, that's not what this was about.

So what the hell is this about then? Who cares if units that aren't in the LoS of those points aren't targeted. My entire point is that most offensive abilities provide no LoS at all. And go ahead and name an ability that targets things it never had LoS on. Nothing works that way, it's not just close the pocket....

What I thought this discussion was about was whether or not it's a good ability. The OP literally said he thought it was weak because it needs LoS. In fact, it provides far more LoS than just about every offensive ability in the entire freaking game. I didn't change any topic

Sector artillery ? The OH one ?

I read it right the first time. If the ability provides 30 LoS in every sector that isn't attached, then that doesn't qualify as "needing line of sight". Areas that aren't revealed become revealed, without any units around.

Meanwhile SCAS, P-47s, Hawkers, all provide no vision and only target units you can already see. Seems pretty easy to differentiate what needs vision and doesn't.

This is how it works. I just tested it on Steppes. On a large map like that one, you can have units far enough away from the control point to not have LOS, then you would need either another unit to give LOS or something like Artillery Flares. On most 2v2's, the sectors are small enough that most everything in the sector gets spotted by the ability itself.

I don't know if the shell intensity increases over time, but the ability definitely doesn't start instantly. The map flashes, it gives a warning, then the shells start coming in.

In terms of destructive power, Close the Pocket is the strongest in the game, as it will wipe multiple buildings, squads, and vehicles for 200 muni's. Even so, it is okay because its really hard to plan for the ability and execute it, unlike a one-click dive bomb.