insta kill mines
30 Oct 2018, 19:11 PM
#1
Posts: 60
question, why can ostheer insta kill my stuart, m20, aaht with 1 mine? thx
30 Oct 2018, 19:17 PM
#2
Posts: 310
Because they must be using heavy anti tank mines. Remember that M20's mine can insta kill a Panzer II and a 222.
"L is for L Shaped Ambush"
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30 Oct 2018, 19:32 PM
#3
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
The riegel heavy mine doesnt actually 1 hit kill those tanks. The teller is the one that does, even though it really shouldn't.
30 Oct 2018, 20:51 PM
#4
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
The riegel heavy mine doesnt actually 1 hit kill those tanks. The teller is the one that does, even though it really shouldn't.
Riegel dies 400 damage, teller does 480, so both can OHK light vehicles
Edit: riegel does 320 damage and teller 400. I thought I saw a T70 die to a riegel once, which caused this misthought.
30 Oct 2018, 21:04 PM
#5
Posts: 911
Because they cost more and ost doesn't get general purpose mines.
Imagine my playercard is here
30 Oct 2018, 21:14 PM
#6
Posts: 773
Because they cost more and ost doesn't get general purpose mines.
No instead they get mines that ruin infantry that walk on them as it doesn't apply the supression effect or mines that are strictly AT and are only triggered by vehicles, ergo, they are not wasted by infantry walking over them.
That comment doesn't justify their mines being able to one shot light vehicles at all, OST can faust, have a very good AT gun and have Shrecks PLUS a devistating mine, they don't need the mine to be so effective.
30 Oct 2018, 21:26 PM
#7
Posts: 1355
Because of people that want to have it both ways.
Its ok that 50 munitions without a mouse click insta destroy a 270 Manpower + 70 fuel vehicle but it was NOT ok that 90 munitions + 1 click (old demos) could insta wipe a 200 - 360 manpower unit.
Try to argue against this logic, I tried and I failed
Its ok that 50 munitions without a mouse click insta destroy a 270 Manpower + 70 fuel vehicle but it was NOT ok that 90 munitions + 1 click (old demos) could insta wipe a 200 - 360 manpower unit.
Try to argue against this logic, I tried and I failed
30 Oct 2018, 21:37 PM
#8
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Because of people that want to have it both ways.
Its ok that 50 munitions without a mouse click insta destroy a 270 Manpower + 70 fuel vehicle but it was NOT ok that 90 munitions + 1 click (old demos) could insta wipe a 200 - 360 manpower unit.
Try to argue against this logic, I tried and I failed
This is what always made me sigh deeply.
I also like, how there seems to be plenty of people who believe that infantry should always be able to retreat, but not destroying vehicle, but making it retreat for repairs is considered a bad thing.
I wish we had more criticals, could do something interesting with mines without having them OHK anything above 50 fuel investment.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Oct 2018, 21:53 PM
#9
1 
Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
Because of people that want to have it both ways.
Its ok that 50 munitions without a mouse click insta destroy a 270 Manpower + 70 fuel vehicle but it was NOT ok that 90 munitions + 1 click (old demos) could insta wipe a 200 - 360 manpower unit.
Try to argue against this logic, I tried and I failed
You can always sweep for your one light vehicle. You can't always sweep for your 8 infantry squads.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
30 Oct 2018, 22:00 PM
#10
Posts: 607
Easier said than done.
My current solution to the glorious teller mine: never drive on what looks like a decent area to drive on.
My current solution to the glorious teller mine: never drive on what looks like a decent area to drive on.
30 Oct 2018, 22:07 PM
#11
Posts: 773
You can always sweep for your one light vehicle. You can't always sweep for your 8 infantry squads.
You can't 'always' sweep for your light vehicles, it's easier to sweep for 1 light vehicle than for 8 squads, but its not a fact like you make it out to be.
30 Oct 2018, 23:07 PM
#12
Posts: 3053
You can always sweep for your one light vehicle. You can't always sweep for your 8 infantry squads.
Yeah as if the argument was always “demos are too hard to sweep for”. Mostly people brought up the fact that it was cheesy that an ability could one shot a squad in an instant. Apply the same logic to tellers and you get “use sweepers lol”.
IMO both tellers and m20 mines shouldn’t one shot. M20 mine should be able to keep immobilize because of how inaccessible it is and because riegel mines are still a thing.
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30 Oct 2018, 23:17 PM
#13
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
My point is the demo was a much bigger deal, they are not on the same level of cancer.
I'd like to see the ohk removed from teller if they adjust the LV meta. Right now in 1v1 LVs are king, ostheer goes mobile defense for a puma in 9/10 games. Soviets go for a t70 in every single matchup. Nerfing the ohk on the teller would make even more players rush for mobile defense puma. It would have a negative impact on the meta. It's kinda cheesy but the meta right now requires it.
The t70 and flame ht need to be less effective against retreating units. Once that is done tellers can lose the OHK.
I'd like to see the ohk removed from teller if they adjust the LV meta. Right now in 1v1 LVs are king, ostheer goes mobile defense for a puma in 9/10 games. Soviets go for a t70 in every single matchup. Nerfing the ohk on the teller would make even more players rush for mobile defense puma. It would have a negative impact on the meta. It's kinda cheesy but the meta right now requires it.
The t70 and flame ht need to be less effective against retreating units. Once that is done tellers can lose the OHK.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
30 Oct 2018, 23:25 PM
#14
Posts: 3053
My point is the demo was a much bigger deal, they are not on the same level of cancer.
I'd like to see the ohk removed from teller if they adjust the LV meta. Right now in 1v1 LVs are king, ostheer goes mobile defense for a puma in 9/10 games. Soviets go for a t70 in every single matchup. Nerfing the ohk on the teller would make even more players rush for mobile defense puma. It would have a negative impact on the meta. It's kinda cheesy but the meta right now requires it.
The t70 and flame ht need to be less effective against retreating units. Once that is done tellers can lose the OHK.
Ah yes I remember we had a conversation about this a while ago. I more or less agree with you, but meanwhile luchs, pumas, stuarts, AAHTs, M20s, and AECs all still get one shot by such mines. I don’t think there’s any problem with the wiping potential of the AEC atm XD
Point is, other vehicles suffer more than they should from these mines. The problem should be addressed with the units themselves and then the mines can be nerfed, sure, but it’s no justification for leaving the mines as is.
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31 Oct 2018, 00:40 AM
#15
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Because the faction lacks a light tank to deal with T70s, stuarts, AECs, AAHTs etc. One of the many reasons panic puma is king currently.
31 Oct 2018, 01:37 AM
#16
Posts: 5279
What would swapping the teller and Riegel look like? Reduce the damage a bit but guaranteed immobilize (or at the VERY least heavy engine damage). Being able to OHK with a mine would be alright if it requires a fuel investment as well as being planted. Or maybe make the 222 lay it then instead of the HT so flametrack might be less of a shoe in.
#stalinwept
31 Oct 2018, 02:42 AM
#17
Posts: 2358
What would swapping the teller and Riegel look like? Reduce the damage a bit but guaranteed immobilize (or at the VERY least heavy engine damage). Being able to OHK with a mine would be alright if it requires a fuel investment as well as being planted. Or maybe make the 222 lay it then instead of the HT so flametrack might be less of a shoe in.
IMO sounds great
31 Oct 2018, 03:01 AM
#18
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
What would swapping the teller and Riegel look like? Reduce the damage a bit but guaranteed immobilize (or at the VERY least heavy engine damage). Being able to OHK with a mine would be alright if it requires a fuel investment as well as being planted. Or maybe make the 222 lay it then instead of the HT so flametrack might be less of a shoe in.
I can tell you what the forums would look like... Same as USF before they got their mines...
31 Oct 2018, 04:06 AM
#19
Posts: 5279
I can tell you what the forums would look like... Same as USF before they got their mines...
How do you mean? They would still have a mine, just it wouldn't insta gib. If anything it would leave Ost in a better spot later game if the snare was heavier. Pak is as viable as ever and Shreks did get a cost reduction making them and mining slightly more plausible. Instagibs are bad if there is no/limited counterplay (even the mighty demo that I think is garbage now should have simply had models capped like mines do so it could still be a blob buster but not a squad wiper)
Reduce the damage and swap the effects, make them a bit cheaper (40mu?) and I think in my mind scenario things would be alight. You still don't want to hit them, but hitting them isn't a massive power swing then. I've killed and had lights killed on debut. It's massive setback if it works and a massive drain if it doesn't on the OST. Too much rides on that imo.
#stalinwept
31 Oct 2018, 04:30 AM
#20
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
How do you mean? They would still have a mine, just it wouldn't insta gib. If anything it would leave Ost in a better spot later game if the snare was heavier. Pak is as viable as ever and Shreks did get a cost reduction making them and mining slightly more plausible. Instagibs are bad if there is no/limited counterplay (even the mighty demo that I think is garbage now should have simply had models capped like mines do so it could still be a blob buster but not a squad wiper)
Reduce the damage and swap the effects, make them a bit cheaper (40mu?) and I think in my mind scenario things would be alight. You still don't want to hit them, but hitting them isn't a massive power swing then. I've killed and had lights killed on debut. It's massive setback if it works and a massive drain if it doesn't on the OST. Too much rides on that imo.
If I understand this correctly, you mean to swap the riegel and teller, which would make the riegel non doc, BUT because you mentioned fuel investment you intend to keep it being deployed from the HT or 222 as mentioned and not from pioneers. Then the teller just gets moved to riegel docs etc. USF currently has the same thing as a Riegel in the M6 AT mine deployed from the M20. Even though USF has access to this mine, it still is not enough to warrent a faction not having nondoc mines. Hence USF was given nondoc mines.
On a side note though, I don't think I've had a whole lot of instances where I just straight up lose my light to a teller. I know OST has mines that can 1 shot my T70, so I just move my pios around with it.
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