Rifle Company need to be rework

the flamer on RE is fine its squishy but so is a pioneer or combat engineer at least it gets one more model at vet3 its decent.

The sprint is not so great due to the debuff either remove the debuff or change the ability to a more expensive global sprint this way it cant be so easily abused, every other faction in the game has a global sprint ability so why not USF too?

The flares are useful in the late game combine that with a pack howie and you can push back support weapons and blind them with the packs WP shells.

The E8 is a good tank its reliable against inf and takes on armor without the need to change shells.

The last ability WP arty Im not a fan, I can get a cheaper more accurate version using pack howie and rifle flares, using WP on top of the the mg or AT gun allowing me to advance with rifles, while the off map saturates the field and makes it difficult to advance, change this ability with something else.

Something that benefits rifles directly like the LMG or Rifle Field Defense, if you merge the sprint with flares remove the debuff you can put both LMG and Rifle Field Defense but that might be a bit too much, and make it too similar too Infantry company.

And has way too much else. Plenty of commanders don't have heavy arty and the fact taht it doesn't have callin units doesn't matter because it has blatantly op suggestions like LT and CPT with flamers and E8 with HVAP and WP lol.

I'd rather see a thread on a reasonable and legitimately possible rework.

I am not saying make E8 call in again so go captain and lieuteant with flamers just addign thows stuff wotn be OP cuz Axis jsut have MGs adn jsut better long range infrnatry

*The sprint ability is balls
*EZ8 is rather expensive fuel wise for its performance.
*WP is good but can be expensive and need to push with it
*Mines and sandbags are good
*flame thrower is fine but REs suck normally.


IMO adding in more rifle squad oriented abilities would be the best fit or maybe we could give it rangers, m1919s, hit the dirt, combined arms ability, or maybe give rifles smoke nade package.

Like most of the sherman tanks that are "upgrades" the Ez8 is pretty garbage. I always find myself wondering why I don't just make Jacksons and M18 scots because at least they deliver on their promise.

All these sherman variations are just so lack luster and in team games they're basically always fighting panthers. Maybe we're balancing this for 1v1 more than the other game modes but throw out the EZ8 and put a damn jumbo in or something. Something that can support the troops cause it won't die and get swarmed by tanks so quickly.

You know why Combined Arms is forgotten in the Pershing Commander? because the tanks a sniper, he pops in, pops out. It can't lead a charge w/ the USF army because it will get shredded by axis AT so fast... the heavy tank that has less hp than the medium panther, hah! The Jumbo would essentially function like a Churchill, beefy, decent armor, and hard to kill.

USF desperately could use a unit to soak for it, you've all seen Churchill/Firefly combo, this is what USF needs as all of their tanks get wrecked by axis tanks. Jacksons had a nice edge when their hp got buffed, but then it got yanked back down because suddenly Jacksons were winning fights vs mediums... despite all of us having to deal with axis tanks popping smoke and leaving... it's just a joke...

The Jackson NEEDED knocked down a peg. It was given tools to survive as a squishy TD. Los, speed, great turret, 60 range... Then suddenly wasn't squishy. It could brawl with P4's while out ranging AND seeing it far as the P4 could shoot guaranteeing supremacy. You needed to have a mental deficiency or be facing a freshly nerfed JT/elefant to lose a Jackson before it was balanced down a bit. Well that or creeping Rak cheese that for some reason is still in game...

Doesn't seem to be much love for RE flamers for some reason. I go Rifle Company whenever it's a map with significant garrison play.

EZ8 is a very good generalist battle tank. Trounces P4s with ease, and cheap enough to be fielded in multiples.

Getting sandbags and mines with Rifle Company would be amazing, would definitely make it a high tier pick. It'd finally be a reason to not lock in Heavy Cav 5 seconds into the game (on low garrison maps).

Doesn't seem to be much love for RE flamers for some reason. I go Rifle Company whenever it's a map with significant garrison play.

EZ8 is a very good generalist battle tank. Trounces P4s with ease, and cheap enough to be fielded in multiples.

Getting sandbags and mines with Rifle Company would be amazing, would definitely make it a high tier pick. It'd finally be a reason to not lock in Heavy Cav 5 seconds into the game (on low garrison maps).

E8 still struggles to pen OKW p4 and OKW p4 is stock unit and dotn forget the support cuz normally E8 wants to go aggresive vs P4 and as OKW raketens mines snare waits you

E8 still struggles to pen OKW p4 and OKW p4 is stock unit and dotn forget the support cuz normally E8 wants to go aggresive vs P4 and as OKW raketens mines snare waits you

Why shouldn't it struggle with the rather expensive okw P4? If you make it too good against that then Ost is hopeless. Iirc it has a higher movement accuracy, something like 215 armour (making it the only allied medium aside from the comet that has any chance of bouncing any proper AT) and a respectable gun, better than the t34/85 for pen if I recall properly. What do you want from it? Immunity to bad play? Snares and mines should remain viable and AT should still be a threat, which it is. Less than any other medium but it needs to be counterable. You can't expect a single unit to just plow through the enemy's combined arms...

Why shouldn't it struggle with the rather expensive okw P4? If you make it too good against that then Ost is hopeless. Iirc it has a higher movement accuracy, something like 215 armour (making it the only allied medium aside from the comet that has any chance of bouncing any proper AT) and a respectable gun, better than the t34/85 for pen if I recall properly. What do you want from it? Immunity to bad play? Snares and mines should remain viable and AT should still be a threat, which it is. Less than any other medium but it needs to be counterable. You can't expect a single unit to just plow through the enemy's combined arms...

OKW P4 more ecpensive lat i check htye have exactly same price and P4 has 234 armour and faster realod insanly faster turret at vet and the fastest realod medium tank aside from 76 mm gun sherman from mecha and P4 bounce a lot more shots trust me cuz Allied AT sux

The Jackson NEEDED knocked down a peg. It was given tools to survive as a squishy TD. Los, speed, great turret, 60 range... Then suddenly wasn't squishy. It could brawl with P4's while out ranging AND seeing it far as the P4 could shoot guaranteeing supremacy. You needed to have a mental deficiency or be facing a freshly nerfed JT/elefant to lose a Jackson before it was balanced down a bit. Well that or creeping Rak cheese that for some reason is still in game...

It may of needed to be knocked down, but a Jackson should win fights against a PZ4 as it costs more fuel and it's only job is to fight tanks. The Pz4 on the other hand is quite good AI. People always cite this, a T-34/76 is 90 fuel so it obviously loses to a 135 fuel PZ4. But isn't a jackson 140 fuel? Yet it has to ALSO contend with the fact it is open topped and believe me, in large team games this matters because all of the indirect fire can often mean long repair times for Jacksons as they tend to take a lot of extra damage from it.

It may of needed to be knocked down, but a Jackson should win fights against a PZ4 as it costs more fuel and it's only job is to fight tanks. The Pz4 on the other hand is quite good AI. People always cite this, a T-34/76 is 90 fuel so it obviously loses to a 135 fuel PZ4. But isn't a jackson 140 fuel? Yet it has to ALSO contend with the fact it is open topped and believe me, in large team games this matters because all of the indirect fire can often mean long repair times for Jacksons as they tend to take a lot of extra damage from it.

The su85 is more expensive than a p4 also but if used poorly it will lose. The Jackson lacks the drawbacks of ANY other TD in the game. Its doesn't need to self spot too. Snipers are dedicated AI and cost more than most infantry squads yet are designed that if you fuck up you lose them. If a p4 manages to close 1/3 of the Jackson's range it DESERVES the kill, or at least to out the hurt on it (which of course the Jackson can fix up all by itself if it escapes). Dedicated counters doesn't mean immunity it means they work bloody well, and nobody can deny the Jackson's performance. It's accurate, mobile and now durable too. HVAP allows it to scale incredibly well and from there it also gets some incredible vet. Ain't nothing wrong with the Jackson.

I like the LMG idea for a soldier, make the doctrine more rifleman focused.

OKW P4 more ecpensive lat i check htye have exactly same price and P4 has 234 armour and faster realod insanly faster turret at vet and the fastest realod medium tank aside from 76 mm gun sherman from mecha and P4 bounce a lot more shots trust me cuz Allied AT sux

alrighty so heres the numbers i have...

pen (c/m/f)
P4 120/110/100
E8 175/.165/155

armour (f/b)
P4 234/80
E8 215/80

chance to pen others front armour as percentage (c/m/f)
P4->E8 56/51/46
E8->P4 75/70/66

conclusion:
despite the p4s vaunted armour, it has significantly lower chance to pen the E8, having a lesser chance to pen it E8 at point blank than the E8 has tom pen it at max range

reload
P4 5.63
E8 6.43

scatter / what i recall moving acc being
P4 6.4 / 0.5
E8 6.2 /0.8

AOE
P4 2.5
E8 2

conclusion:
the p4 is better at killing infantry, better reload plenty offsets the slight edge the E8 has in accuracy... when stationary. the E8 however fires much more accurately on the move making it a great chaser.

acceleration/ deceleration/ max speed
P4 2.1/4/6.1
E8 2/4.1/6

Conclusion:
the E8 is more mobile, by a tiny insignificant margin, literally .1 of a unit in all categories

*bonus*
at vet 1 the E8 gets radio net which improves los by 5% and accuracy by 10% per allied vehicle

grand conclusion:
E8 superior in all fields save for killing infantry, and even there i think the .50 cal is a better MG than the mg34 on the okw p4 which may help make up for it.

alrighty so heres the numbers i have...

pen (c/m/f)
P4 120/110/100
E8 175/.165/155

armour (f/b)
P4 234/80
E8 215/80

chance to pen others front armour as percentage (c/m/f)
P4->E8 56/51/46
E8->P4 75/70/66

conclusion:
despite the p4s vaunted armour, it has significantly lower chance to pen the E8, having a lesser chance to pen it E8 at point blank than the E8 has tom pen it at max range

reload
P4 5.63
E8 6.43

scatter / what i recall moving acc being
P4 6.4 / 0.5
E8 6.2 /0.8

AOE
P4 2.5
E8 2

conclusion:
the p4 is better at killing infantry, better reload plenty offsets the slight edge the E8 has in accuracy... when stationary. the E8 however fires much more accurately on the move making it a great chaser.

acceleration/ deceleration/ max speed
P4 2.1/4/6.1
E8 2/4.1/6

Conclusion:
the E8 is more mobile, by a tiny insignificant margin, literally .1 of a unit in all categories

*bonus*
at vet 1 the E8 gets radio net which improves los by 5% and accuracy by 10% per allied vehicle

grand conclusion:
E8 superior in all fields save for killing infantry, and even there i think the .50 cal is a better MG than the mg34 on the okw p4 which may help make up for it.

This are so small changes for a commadner vs stock unit E8 should be like a comet but thats my opinion thats my thouth

snip

The E8 is fantastic on the move, more so then the base Sherman (I believe) which is already excellent. It makes it very good at flanking and brawling other tanks that cannot remain on the move. If anything the E8 could use a reload buff but then it might be way too strong with radio net.

Id also consider making it more mobile to benefit from its excellent on the move accuracy but once again that could be op.

Or the E8 can fill that role of a bruiser and be able to tank shots better, this would 100% require a price increase though.(Mind Posting the health values?)

I think the ez8 is the least underwhelming portion of the commander and is in a fairly good spot. It’s more the relative uselessness of flares and fire up and their consequently small impact compared to a host of other abilities the commander could have instead that holds this commander back. At the very least they should be merged and fire up turned into the straight sprint that like 6 other units have.

Wall of stats

Although I'm not going to stat check all of these, just by looking at the p4 pen I know that is at least incorrect.

P4 pen is now 125/115/110

And not to nitpick too badly, the E8s massive advantage comes from its 720 HP vs the 640 of other stock mediums, which means it takes 5 shots to kill from 160 damage sources instead of 4.

So, rifle company doesn't need an Ez8 chance. Neither does Ez8 need a balance change. It's a fine tank and the only reason to pick the doctrine besides the flames. Now the problem is: sprint and flares are taking up two slots when it should take up one. It'll be extremely easy to just combine the two and then add rifleman field defense in order to make this commander half viable.

I honestly would like it if they revamped Rifle company instead of making a new commander. Rifle is so outdated half of the time people win not because this commander brought anything to the table, but because they played much better than the other player.

If there were other commanders with RE flamers they would be chosen instantly over this commander.

Although I'm not going to stat check all of these, just by looking at the p4 pen I know that is at least incorrect.

P4 pen is now 125/115/110

And not to nitpick too badly, the E8s massive advantage comes from its 720 HP vs the 640 of other stock mediums, which means it takes 5 shots to kill from 160 damage sources instead of 4.

My stats are a bit out of date, I made a spreadsheet a bit before stats.hu went away. I tried to adjust the changes I remembered but my memory is only so good, now that you mention it I remember the pen up for P4 but don't remember the E8 health up at all. Thanks for the corrections, I'll commit them to the sheet.

The rest should more or less be accurate, either way the jist is there.

The E8 is fantastic on the move, more so then the base Sherman (I believe) which is already excellent. It makes it very good at flanking and brawling other tanks that cannot remain on the move. If anything the E8 could use a reload buff but then it might be way too strong with radio net.

Id also consider making it more mobile to benefit from its excellent on the move accuracy but once again that could be op.

Or the E8 can fill that role of a bruiser and be able to tank shots better, this would 100% require a price increase though.(Mind Posting the health values?)

Some of the stats might be slightly off I've learned, but apearently the E8 has 720hp vs the P4 640mp