M10 tank destroyer (and other stuff) - A different approach

Before i start: This is not a "x op, y up" thread at all. I made this thread to point out easy solutions (at least imho) to a few (mainly tech trees) design issues.
This is not the holy book or the quran, if i made a mistake, types wrong stats, or you think my ideas are simply bad feel free to correct me and share your opinion.


1) US always had the issue of having one non doctrinal tank destroyer. My idea is that the "Armor Company" M10, that is currently being reworked, could be placed within the Major tier of USF.
Now USF has a stopgap at vehicle that can take on panzers

2) To incentive the use of both, the Major tier could be split: the first 60 fuel unlocks the major, the m8 motor carriage and the m10, while a sidetech of 60 fuel could unlock the offmap abilities of the Major, the M36 and the Sherman

3) Same could be made for OKW Flak Truck, 60 fuel would unlock the Obersoldaten and the JagdPanzer IV/70-(v), while the Panther and Panzer 4 could be unlocked by sideteching

4) OKW could also see their tier1 and 2 trucks changed so there's more room for backteching and the trucks sideteching. Trucks set up could cost only 15 fuel, and automatically unlock the healing/repair station. If the player requires those units it could sidetech paying the exact same price as he pays now for simply setting the truck up.

3) Same could be made for OKW Flak Truck, 60 fuel would unlock the Obersoldaten and the JagdPanzer IV/70-(v), while the Panther and Panzer 4 could be unlocked by sideteching

I like this idea, for the Obersoldaten at least. While they are potent infantry they've always had the problem of arriving too late, giving them a significant veterancy disadvantage. This solution is easier than shuffling units around tier structures. I'm not so sure about the Jagdpanzer since it would become so cheap it would deny all Allied early armor. I'd put that one into the sidetech as well.

I like this idea, for the Obersoldaten at least. While they are potent infantry they've always had the problem of arriving too late, giving them a significant veterancy disadvantage. This solution is easier than shuffling units around tier structures. I'm not so sure about the Jagdpanzer since it would become so cheap it would deny all Allied early armor. I'd put that one into the sidetech as well.

If jagdpanzer would be too powerful then it should be NERFED and placed still 60 fuel before.
Okw doesn't need an high tier tank destroyer other than Panther, but a stopgap at like stug.

The m-10 is actually a good unit and there is little reason to buff it. The problem start from the fact that m-36 can do everything.

So there is a number of way to deal with the issue:
1) Keep M-36 good vs vehicles above P4 but lower its ability vs P4 and bellow. That can be achieved by lowering the accuracy of the unit. Now M-10 can be designed as a unit best used against vehicles up to P4.

2) Make M-10 available as call-in unit so that strategies that skipped T4 become viable. That would mean that no AI tank should be available to the commander, in other words swapping M-10 for Sherman 76 from armour to mechanised. The unit should still be available to be built from T4 at a lower price.

It's a neat idea that's come up before but I don't think it's likely at this point.

The m-10 is actually a good unit and there is little reason to buff it. The problem start from the fact that m-36 can do everything.

So there is a number of way to deal with the issue:
1) Keep M-36 good vs vehicles above P4 but lower its ability vs P4 and bellow. That can be achieved by lowering the accuracy of the unit. Now M-10 can be designed as a unit best used against vehicles up to P4.

2) Make M-10 available as call-in unit so that strategies that skipped T4 become viable. That would mean that no AI tank should be available to the commander, in other words swapping M-10 for Sherman 76 from armour to mechanised. The unit should still be available to be built from T4 at a lower price.

If it needs to be adjusted it will, putting it at the same exact timing with jackson will, inevitably, end up making players choose one if the two and cement meta.

The m36 jackson changes you are proposing is optimal and not mutually exclusive with splitting tier 4. They perfectly fit the introduction of medium centered at.

Keeping m10 doctrinal doesn't solve the issue that m36 jackson still needs to be good vs anything or usf needs to rely on mp based at like at guns to counter panzer 4.

It's a neat idea that's come up before but I don't think it's likely at this point.

There's probably much less work to do with this than to create doctrines or even just rework some.

But i see what you mean

Keeping m10 doctrinal doesn't solve the issue that m36 jackson still needs to be good vs anything or usf needs to rely on mp based at like at guns to counter panzer 4.

Imo the TD should be separated to "medium TDs" that good vs medium tanks and not really effective vs Super heavies and the "heavy Tds" that effect vs Super heavies but less effective vs mediums. Imo M-36 being able to counter effectively every vehicle from a Kubel to a JT is bad design.

Imo USF have enough option to counter P4 even without the M-36. (Although I do find the P4's gun a bit too good vs infantry)

One can also try to make M-10 the stock unit and M-36 the doctrinal one.

Imo the TD should be separated to "medium TDs" that good vs medium tanks and not really effective vs Super heavies and the "heavy Tds" that effect vs Super heavies but less effective vs mediums. Imo M-36 being able to counter effectively every vehicle from a Kubel to a JT is bad design.

Imo USF have enough option to counter P4 even without the M-36. (Although I do find the P4's gun a bit too good vs infantry)

One can also try to make M-10 the stock unit and M-36 the doctrinal one.

Then u must be crazy. M 10 maybe is good vs panzers or even stugs but struggle when fight againts panthers or heavy tanks.

This level of bulshit is like suggestion that wermaht dont need panthers because stug.

I dont know why your opinion is so biased, USF faction lacks hard without commander and for u they dont need even jackson. If u dont know that thing makes USF decent/playable without it GG.

Why OKW need panther anyway when they have jagpanzer ? Maybe we should make panther doctrinal for okw asymetrical to wermaht

This level of bulshit is like suggestion that wermaht dont need panthers because stug.

Uhm no, he is suggesting it should be exactly like OH's Stug and Panther, with the M10 serving as a cheaper/intermediate TD to counter light-medium tanks and the M36 to counter heavy tanks or TD's. Which makes sense because right now the M36 is great against literally any vehicle which removes any reason to ever get an M10 instead.

idk what i all read here but, fak it all.

why not make it so m10 can only be spawned if LT and CPT are teched?
this will create new strategies,...
it would also instantly fix the problem of the m36 overshadowing the m10,

BUT

you will ofcourse have the problem that LT and CPT combined only cost 110 fuel.
the major and lets say LT combined cost 170 fuel.
now how do we fix that?

maybe put a second tech on the CPT and LT wich both cost 30 fuel,
but when teched you can make an m10.

all this suggesting of the m10 becoming something like a panther is bs in my opinion cause it doesn't have close to the armor points of a panther and what are you with something that only can fight pz4 but nothing above that? the m36 overshadows the m10 with almost everything(i know you wanne proof me wrang. it has speed blabla).
ostheer has a shit tech don't make another one. (another thing you can talk about)

now jagd wolf nr2 idea is good cause here you also have a use with m10 and you can tech to m36 later, but what if you don't have the commander?

3d idea is stupid tho. why start changing the okw tech?
sideteching for a pz4 is crazy as in 1v1 you almost always go for that pz4.
just don't change the tech...

3d idea is stupid tho. why start changing the okw tech?
sideteching for a pz4 is crazy as in 1v1 you almost always go for that pz4.
just don't change the tech...

Did you even read it? With this suggestion the Panzer IV will stay exactly like it is now, with the exact same cost and timing. The only thing that would change is that the T4 HQ structure itself can be built earlier so Obers can come out earlier, which is a sensible thing.

The m10 is so much better at flanking than the jakson. The problem is not with the m10 but with the bulldozer. They added an ability to the m10 which makes no sense on this unit. All they need to do is give the dozer the same barrage ability the brumbar has and take away the m10's new ability. The new dozer competes with the scott and sherman. Why not just make it unique?

The m10 is so much better at flanking than the jakson. The problem is not with the m10 but with the bulldozer. They added an ability to the m10 which makes no sense on this unit. All they need to do is give the dozer the same barrage ability the brumbar has and take away the m10's new ability. The new dozer competes with the scott and sherman. Why not just make it unique?

And jackson does not need to flank.

M10 needed its own gimmick and a unique one to not be constantly overshadowed by jackson.

If jagdpanzer would be too powerful then it should be NERFED and placed still 60 fuel before.
Okw doesn't need an high tier tank destroyer other than Panther, but a stopgap at like stug.

The Hetzer dream is real

And jackson does not need to flank.

M10 needed its own gimmick and a unique one to not be constantly overshadowed by jackson.

I like m10s but hate the commander they are in. The m10 is probably the best tank for flanking other tanks, but paks and reketans are a pain in the butt for the armored commander. The dozer could help clear or scare paks away with a barrage ability. Then you move in with your m10s to clean up the armor.

idk what i all read here but, fak it all.

why not make it so m10 can only be spawned if LT and CPT are teched?
this will create new strategies,...
it would also instantly fix the problem of the m36 overshadowing the m10,

BUT

you will ofcourse have the problem that LT and CPT combined only cost 110 fuel.
the major and lets say LT combined cost 170 fuel.
now how do we fix that?

maybe put a second tech on the CPT and LT wich both cost 30 fuel,
but when teched you can make an m10.

all this suggesting of the m10 becoming something like a panther is bs in my opinion cause it doesn't have close to the armor points of a panther and what are you with something that only can fight pz4 but nothing above that? the m36 overshadows the m10 with almost everything(i know you wanne proof me wrang. it has speed blabla).
ostheer has a shit tech don't make another one. (another thing you can talk about)

now jagd wolf nr2 idea is good cause here you also have a use with m10 and you can tech to m36 later, but what if you don't have the commander?

3d idea is stupid tho. why start changing the okw tech?
sideteching for a pz4 is crazy as in 1v1 you almost always go for that pz4.
just don't change the tech...

I don't get the complaint.
Nothing time and fuel wise wpuld change for OKW panzer 4, except that you need to click a second button. Panzer 4 is still behind 120 fuel of Tier 3 + 4

Imo the TD should be separated to "medium TDs" that good vs medium tanks and not really effective vs Super heavies and the "heavy Tds" that effect vs Super heavies but less effective vs mediums. Imo M-36 being able to counter effectively every vehicle from a Kubel to a JT is bad design.

Imo USF have enough option to counter P4 even without the M-36. (Although I do find the P4's gun a bit too good vs infantry)

One can also try to make M-10 the stock unit and M-36 the doctrinal one.

The main issue is still present. Until jackson usf has only softcounters to panzer 4.

All factions but usf (and uk) get a nondoctrinal stopgap at, i don.t see the issue with usf having one

The main issue is still present. Until jackson usf has only softcounters to panzer 4.

All factions but usf (and uk) get a nondoctrinal stopgap at, i don.t see the issue with usf having one

Sooo 60% have stop gap AT
As in just over half
And even then, okw doesn't really if they go med truck.
Coincidentally the only factions without stop gap AT are also the only factions that can make any infantry squad they get (even ones they might get for free) into an AT platform. I'm sure it's just an oversight tho...

Uhm no, he is suggesting it should be exactly like OH's Stug and Panther, with the M10 serving as a cheaper/intermediate TD to counter light-medium tanks and the M36 to counter heavy tanks or TD's. Which makes sense because right now the M36 is great against literally any vehicle which removes any reason to ever get an M10 instead.

This is because the devs didn't leave it as a call in. If they hadn't screwed it up by requiring you to tech to Major and then build it at the Battalion CP it would have a purpose.