Elite vehicle crews idea

Elite vehicle crews has always been pretty much a waste of munitions. The squad is too squishy and small to make use of SMGs most of the time and is on the fairly expensive side to reinforce; it also only has one combat related veterancy bonus. This makes it not at all efficient as a combat squad. The addition of repair and veterancy gain bonuses is nice, but still not worth even its reduced cost of 70 muni, especially when you take into account the relative squishiness of most usf tanks and vehicles.

My proposition that I’ve already mentioned a few times is that whenever a vehicle manned by a crew with the elite crew upgrade is destroyed, 2 of the men are able to bail out and can be retreated, saving the muni investment and veterancy they have gained. This way, armor company allows you to (for substantial cost) maintain veteran armor in a way that isn’t really possible most of the time. It also would offer some counterplay on the axis side, as the squad would be fairly easy to wipe on retreat since it’s only 2 men with a large RA (think wiping a 2 man mg crew on retreat) and still punishes overextending one’s armor.

In my opinion this would be a sizable boost to a less than stellar commander.

That would mean that USF crew will have a very high probability to be vet 3 since they would have a very low chance to die.

Player will also be stack with a number of crews that disembark from the new vehicles for the vetted crews to use.
(imo one should move the repair critical ability to assault engineer and replace the vet 1 ability with one that allows either to be refitted and be removed from the map or to be "promote" to another unit like R.E.
Or another mechanism could be introduced to unwanted units from the map)


Although I have suggested a similar idea this can only work if the crew loses some of it veterancy (50-75%) in the process.

some other ideas:
Crew can upgrade with 2 Thompson for 10 mu?

For an amount of manpower/fuel crews can now gain a 4 vet bonus that gives them utility

Hmmm, when I hear of "elite" I either think vet 5 or an "ace" sort of tank, maybe a Sherman E8 Ace like Fury?

Elite crews are changed in commander revamp, they are cheaper, are getting repair and vet gain bonuses.

Hmmm, when I hear of "elite" I either think vet 5 or an "ace" sort of tank, maybe a Sherman E8 Ace like Fury?

Yeha E8 vet 5 throws grenades smoek white phsofure the smoke pots and fires liek tiger ace and better vs infrnatry

That would mean that USF crew will have a very high probability to be vet 3 since they would have a very low chance to die.

Player will also be stack with a number of crews that disembark from the new vehicles for the vetted crews to use.
(imo one should move the repair critical ability to assault engineer and replace the vet 1 ability with one that allows either to be refitted and be removed from the map or to be "promote" to another unit like R.E.
Or another mechanism could be introduced to unwanted units from the map)


Although I have suggested a similar idea this can only work if the crew loses some of it veterancy (50-75%) in the process.

some other ideas:
Crew can upgrade with 2 Thompson for 10 mu?

For an amount of manpower/fuel crews can now gain a 4 vet bonus that gives them utility

Yeah having them lose some vet might make sense. Keep in mind that 2 guys with like 1.25 RA (a little less win vet3) have a pretty high chance to get wiped by the time tanks come out.

Having some sort of “withdraw” option for vehicle crews could also make sense, and would help mechanized company too I guess.

Like I said in OP, the fundamental problem with Thompson vehicle crews is that they just don’t have the RA to pull it off. Having only two Thompsons (while being significantly cheaper) would only compound that problem. Imagine walking an mg or mortar crew up to an infantry squad and having them sit point blank for a few seconds. Doesn’t work very well, and adding dps (even a ton of dps) wouldn’t really change much in that scenario; maybe they’d drop like 1-2 models before having to retreat depending on the squad. That’s the main reason I suggested the bailing out thing, as they really just aren’t at all cost efficient in any role except being inside tanks as normal usf vehicle crews operate, but if you put them inside tanks, then it’s not really worth getting the upgrade since they’re likely to die in the tank (especially if the tank in question is an M10) at some point, which is an awful lot of munitions to lose for slightly faster repair speed and vet gain IMO.

Like I said in OP,...

I agree the weapon idea is not very good, and it is hard to balance since it tends to lead to cheesy tactics. There was a time when players used to drive 2 the fast m10 into paks and kill them with Thompson.

I would rather go with an extra vet level.

Personally I'd just ditch Elite Crews entirely and give Armor Company Mark Target instead.

Elite crew could have binoculars upgrade, giving +10 visual range that would be enough.

Elite crew could have binoculars upgrade, giving +10 visual range that would be enough.

Would be OP on some units...

Elite crew could have binoculars upgrade, giving +10 visual range that would be enough.

Bringing back the self-spotting Jacksons? No please

The proposed changes to Elite Crews in the mod I think would be more appropriate as a passive. It's not too much of a buff, isn't really combat related, and I don't think it worth any kind of munitions giving what unit you're upgrading.

But yeah,maybe if elite crews disembarked when the vehicle dies it would be worth a muni upgrade. Hell just that ability alone, no other upgrades necessary may be worth it.

A free bail sounds frustrating to play against. How about faster bail instead? that way you have to stay on your toes, but you still have a better chance of saving your crews.

I think the hard part to figure out with this upgrade is what it's really meant for. Should it benefit crews inside of tanks, or outside of them?

If you lose a tank and your Elite Crew escapes, do you want to keep the tommy gun-wielding fast repair guys outside, or do you want your new tank to get their vet? Neither solution is great because of the opportunity cost.

My recommendation-
-2 Thompsons
-Fast Bail
-small repair bonus
for 30mu.

That would allow more crews to live, and make the new displaced crews a bit more valuable.

Free bail might not be so OP assuming it doesn't give them a durability modifier or auto retreat. Keep in mind they are a large target, if 2 men that's pretty easy to kill and if the player still has to select them and hit retreat it might be enough balance to work given the required for thought to invest in the upgrade and associated... Not BARs that brings

As it stands, just making it cost 60 could be good, give it to TD crews so they can fight on foot, when the AT ain't needed.

Personally I'd just ditch Elite Crews entirely and give Armor Company Mark Target instead.

That’s definitely an option.

A free bail sounds frustrating to play against. How about faster bail instead? that way you have to stay on your toes, but you still have a better chance of saving your crews.

I think the hard part to figure out with this upgrade is what it's really meant for. Should it benefit crews inside of tanks, or outside of them?

If you lose a tank and your Elite Crew escapes, do you want to keep the tommy gun-wielding fast repair guys outside, or do you want your new tank to get their vet? Neither solution is great because of the opportunity cost.

My recommendation-
-2 Thompsons
-Fast Bail
-small repair bonus
for 30mu.

That would allow more crews to live, and make the new displaced crews a bit more valuable.

I thought about that too. That’s a pretty decent solution as well.

Free bail might not be so OP assuming it doesn't give them a durability modifier or auto retreat. Keep in mind they are a large target, if 2 men that's pretty easy to kill and if the player still has to select them and hit retreat it might be enough balance to work given the required for thought to invest in the upgrade and associated... Not BARs that brings

That’s the idea. 2 men with large target sizes are very easy to wipe by the time vehicles show up.

As it stands, just making it cost 60 could be good, give it to TD crews so they can fight on foot, when the AT ain't needed.

Which is a nice idea, but again, large target sizes and lack of combat veterancy bonuses and abilities as well as a somewhat expensive reinforce cost. Riflemen wit more BARs are the much better anti infantry infantry option.

While we are already talking about Vehicle Crews (sorry, a bit offtopic) - Why can they still leave their vehicles without delay, forcing the German player to attack move the left vehicle manually again (OH WHAT A USABILITY NIGHTMARE!!)?

I simply find the lack of inconsistency stupid. Leaving building is also not immediately anymore.

While we are already talking about Vehicle Crews (sorry, a bit offtopic) - Why can they still leave their vehicles without delay, forcing the German player to attack move the left vehicle manually again (OH WHAT A USABILITY NIGHTMARE!!)?

I simply find the lack of inconsistency stupid. Leaving building is also not immediately anymore.

They can't.
There is a delay 3sec for years now.

They can't.
There is a delay 3sec for years now.

Really??

Okay now I am really surprised. Absolutely didn't know that. Should play USF more often haha.