Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

Sadly I don't have all commanders, so I couldn't test everything, but here's my feedback/opinion:

250 halftrack
First 2 bugs:
1. It has a sight bonus at both vet 1 and vet 2.
2. The description says it can reinforce when dug in (it can't for me).

It's pretty cheap and actually has some utility now, but it doesn't really excel in any role. As a troop transport it has a weak mg and low health (worse than 222 or 251). And as a mobile bunker it has terrible suppression. Suppressing a con at long range (no cover) took <0,5 bursts with the mg42, 1 burst with the mg34 and a total of 3 bursts with the 250. My suggestion would be to either (with possible price increase):

1. Increase suppression (mobile bunker)
2. increase mg base damage (harassing vehicle)
3. Add reinforcing when dug in (support vehicle)

Veteran squad leaders
The added survivability is great, but there are some drawbacks compared to the other upgrades:

- Compared to double G43's: Around the same close range damage, bit lower mid range damage, bit higher long range damage. 15 more munitions, no interrogation.
- Compared to LMG: Higher close range damage, higher midrange damage, lower long range damage

(Also effectively costs 30MP and 1 pop cap more)

The damage profile above seems fine, but the problem is that the squad potentially has far lower damage retention because the g43 is non-transferable. Considering this ability is the commanders's prime feature, that's the only thing I would change.

Commissar
The unit is cool, but IMO the forward retreat point is too much if you consider the free combat abilities, free healing and spammable propaganda arty. Could make soviets far harder to dislodge in the late-game (which is already relatively hard), while they can pound at you much more often.

Scorched earth
Don't like this ability in its current stage. It essentially locks up cut-off points for 90 seconds (which is an eternity in 1v1) unless you send mine sweepers. It slows down the game too much. I think the point should atleast be neutralisable. Otherwise it should be fully capturable while providing resources to the soviet player as long as it's in soviet hands, but not to the axis player when it's in axis hands, until the 90 seconds are over. The flames are enough of a deterrent and give the soviet player plenty of time to react. If not, then maybe it could be tweaked to burn longer/wider.

Forward Observation Post
No reason to choose the 60 fuel building conversion option now when you can just upgrade the forward assembly for 10 fuel (which is also more flexible and useful). I think upgrading the forward assembly should cost 100mp + 20 fuel, while converting a building should cost 300mp + 40 fuel and give the ability to reinforce (together with the arty abilities). About the ability costs:

1. The smoke cost should atleast be halved.
2. The strafe plane is a wipe machine so 150 munitions is fine.
3. The recon almost covers the whole map and should therefore not cost less.
4. The arty strike is less powerful but can be used to cheese OKW trucks so is probably also fine.
5. The artillery cover is multi-functional so 180 munitions seems reasonable.

Others
Stormtroopers: Really like them, they finally have their own distinct role now. Lower mid/long range damage than stg's, but far more utility (something which Ostheer lacks IMO). Having buffed mp40's while being able to pop out of buildings seems a bit strong tho, maybe make the mp40's a free / low cost upgrade that takes some time?

Stug E: Higher projectile speed and AoE makes auto-firing a bit less depressing. The potential max damage seems lower now, but that's more than a fair trade-off for the survivability buff.

M-42 AT gun: Canister round is okay-ish, better than nothing-ish. Penetration is fine considering the price (but will still ofcourse bounce a p4 more often than not). Stealth also makes hit-and-run attacks a possibility. FoW tracking makes it somewhat useful in the mid- to late-game.

KV8: The inspire ability is like tactical movement lite, good for chasing down damaged tanks. Fuel price is maybe a bit hefty for a meatshield with a peashooter and a flamethrower.

Forward headquarters: I think many people voted for this commander because they wanted to see the cheesy HQ get changed. It's really unplayable on some maps. Not sure if the CP increase fixes this, but otherwise I'd consider removing the aura buff while lowering the fuel cost a bit. Being more durable, garrisonable and denying your opponent the building seems like enough of a benefit to me over the field post.

Crocodile: It costs 150mp and 70 fuel more than a normal Churchill and has lower health, while "only" offering a flamethrower in return. I would rather have artillery cover replace this again, the commander becomes really bloated otherwise. That would also mean you have an ability that's not restricted to the forward observation post.

Air resupply operation: Team weapons become really cheap and spammable with this ability. Altough it's good that munition costs have been reduced to make the rest of this commander's abilities more useable, I would atleast lengthen the cooldown for this ability a bit more. Maybe the mp cost could also be upped to 150?

Recovery sappers: Only logical changes, it's sounds far more useful now that it's only one squad and actually has some distinctive qualities. BUG: description refers to "squads" instead of "squad".

Overwatch: Never played this commander, but replacing sector assault with an LefH seems like a nerf. Considering this commander is mostly chosen in 1v1, I would personally choose an off-map ability over a fragile, unpredictable unit that delays my tanks and takes up pop-cap (even if that off-map ability is quirky).

105mm dozer: At vet 2 it has more health than a Brummbar. Not really a problem, but it's interesting nonetheless.

240mm: This doesn't get used because its extremely unpredictable and costs an arm and a leg. Making the first shell a guaranteed hit and lowering the cost to ~200 munitions would atleast give it some use.

Mechanized Company: Oh God, the buffs, TwistedTootsy is gonna kill us all... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

i just want to figure it out that
combine arms in mechanized company become insane
m3 Halftrack + 2 rear echeleons with double zooks each can kited a panther to death with their ability (fortunantely this cost a lot of munition and it MUST be played correctly so it "balance" somehow)

i just confuse with the cavalry rifleman because this unit just didnt work, an anti infantry CQB unit while Rifleman with double bar do the same (or better) i think make the the cavalry rifleman is an upgrade for the rifleman for 90 munis with 4 thompsons and remove the AT satchel USF didnt need aditional AT while you have jacksons and 76 (and ofc halftrack with zooks)
also 76 sherman isnt it too cheap for HVAP rounds? and i suggest that the HVAP round become passive in vet 2 or 3 so it reward player who keep their 76 cleverly and also a fair thing for its price

The problem with the American turbo clown car is that RE's can discover mines while being crewed. Every other weapon is far too slow to hit that thing if it has vet + speed buffs

https://clips.twitch.tv/SullenFrailRuffKappaClaus

The problem with the American turbo clown car is that RE's can discover mines while being crewed. Every other weapon is far too slow to hit that thing if it has vet + speed buffs

https://clips.twitch.tv/SullenFrailRuffKappaClaus

All open topped transports can do that + soviet M3 and M5 could do that since day 1.
Hardly a problem.

All open topped transports can do that + soviet M3 and M5 could do that since day 1.
Hardly a problem.

Sorry, I'll make my point more clear, RE's can have sweepers as well as zooks. This means you can fill the American M3 with 4 zooks, while being immune to mines and having the fastest troop transport (or vehicle even) in coh2 once you get vet and use step on the gas. It's the combination that does it. Soviet transports are slower and can't get a sweeper + 4 handheld rockets inside. It's arguably broken, but only a few players use it.

....can't get a sweeper + 4 handheld rockets inside. It's arguably broken, but only a few players use it.

That's point. If it really is so, that has to be changed.

165??? WutFace HOLY HELL

Yeah but they gotta do something about the 76mm sherman man. Right now it's just such a horrible idea to go for this unit in teamgames (instead of just Jacksons + BAR spam) as you will get bullied so hard by Panthers, you even need to pray that the 76mm sherman can win a 1v1 vs OKW p4.

Can we get some testing with this ability? I am curious if a HVAP ammo sherman can stand even a small chance vs Panther, JP4 or OKW p4 despite the RoF penalty

> Putting PanzerFusiliers in Elite Armor

Too controversial

> Giving a generalist 125 fuel tank 12 pop with pintle mg, 75% moving accuracy and radio net a quasi stug-like penrtration shell

Yep good idea

Yeah but they gotta do something about the 76mm sherman man. Right now it's just such a horrible idea to go for this unit in teamgames (instead of just Jacksons + BAR spam) as you will get bullied so hard by Panthers, you even need to pray that the 76mm sherman can win a 1v1 vs OKW p4.

Can we get some testing with this ability? I am curious if a HVAP ammo sherman can stand even a small chance vs Panther, JP4 or OKW p4 despite the RoF penalty

For it's current price it shouldn't stand a chance with a panther and should loose vs p4 and jp4. But yeah they gonna do something about the 76mm sherman. It's not much space for him in teamgames. Just they can't forget that with better stats and utility comes higher price.

Yeah but they gotta do something about the 76mm sherman man. Right now it's just such a horrible idea to go for this unit in teamgames (instead of just Jacksons + BAR spam) as you will get bullied so hard by Panthers, you even need to pray that the 76mm sherman can win a 1v1 vs OKW p4.

Can we get some testing with this ability? I am curious if a HVAP ammo sherman can stand even a small chance vs Panther, JP4 or OKW p4 despite the RoF penalty

Why not turn it to a US panther with less survivability but still way cheaper then ?

I don't think ANYONE disagree with the fact that 76mm Sherman should become useful, but i don't really think ANYBODY can claim this is a good solution either, right ?

Here's a copy-paste that I wrote in the official thread. I can't take the time to go read all of these fifty four pages (but I did read the first page of recommendations on the official website) so hopefully this isn't redundant/already shot down but here goes.

One thing I'd like to see with USF's Armor Company is a Thompson upgrade for the Assault Engineers

The Thompson SMG in coh2 is really great and I'd always love to see more of them.

Suggestions for balance with the Thompson upgrade are:
1) Have Thompsons take up two weapons slots, locking out additional upgrades (M2 flamethrower or BAR)
2) Limit Thompsons to four weapons (this could be done in combination with the above point, or without it)
a) Limit Thompsons to three weapons (and taking up only one weapons lot)
b) Bundle three to four Thompsons WITH the M2 Flamethrower (and increase price, obviously)
3) Requiring either Lieutenant OR Captain already on field to unlock the Thompsons (basically, 50 or 60 fuel requirement + build time)

With the addition of a Thompson SMG package, Assault Engineers would be an even more attractive option due to their CQB versatility. If the Thompson upgrade and the M2 flamethrower are mutually exclusive, it would give the Assault Engineers a distinct role as a CQB squad (and not a building-clearer).
However, if the Thompson package and the M2 flamethrower are not mutually exclusive (or bundled together), it would increase the overall potential performance of the squad in its current role as a building clearer + CQB squad + utility squad.
Bundling the upgrades together into an "assault package) would further direct the player to the squad's intended role as a close combat/anti-garrison unit as it throws out the ability to equip an M2 flamethrower and BAR. (This is based on the assumption that mid-range DPS with Thompson + M2 would be lower than BAR + M2.)

However, to be frank, the competitive issues with USF are beyond the scope of several commanders and due to the organization of key units in the tech buildings (.50 cal vs. AT gun vs. delay armor). There's a reason why so few games were played with USF during GCS2 (both the qualifiers and the live event in Manchester). Their win rate during the 4 qualifier tournaments was also dismally poor at 36% (although there are certainly other issues at play when it comes to faction selection at lower levels of play).
That being said, the proposed changes above would definitely be enjoyed by players at the mid-skill level where the meta is somewhat different.

Why not turn it to a US panther with less survivability but still way cheaper then ?

I don't think ANYONE disagree with the fact that 76mm Sherman should become useful, but i don't really think ANYBODY can claim this is a good solution either, right ?

And what's Jackson's role, not to be a Panther?

To be fair, there is no need for Sherman. And if, the Tiger has to be optimiced with 55 to 60 range to deal with that.

And what's Jackson's role, not to be a Panther?

To be fair, there is no need for Sherman. And if, the Tiger has to be optimiced with 55 to 60 range to deal with that.

Well, i can see why an alternative take on the classic medium health low armor tank destroyer can be appreciated.
Commanders are meant to offer different tools that aren't necessarily better or worse (see osttruppen) but just a different way to deal with enemy units.

A ez8 with no ai except pintle, 260 armor and hvap penetration that cost, lets's say, 165 fuel and has 50 range would be acceptable

Sherman 76mm does not have to be a "better" Sherman. It can simply offer different options.

For instance by making the 76mm identical to the 75mm but with AP round instead of HE the 76mm will not replace the 75mm but there will be able to work side by side.

Trying to "emulate" units that other faction have usually causes more problems than it solves, and turning the 76mm into a Panther does not really sound like a good idea.

Sherman 76mm does not have to be a "better" Sherman. It can simply offer different options.

For instance by making the 76mm identical to the 75mm but with AP round instead of HE the 76mm will not replace the 75mm but there will be able to work side by side.

Trying to "emulate" units that other faction have usually causes more problems than it solves, and turning the 76mm into a Panther does not really sound like a good idea.

It isn't really a panther, it lacks its health.
I can't see why it could be unbalanced, jagd and stug still can deal with it.
I think it should lose 75% moving accuracy as well

What do you mean by making it similar to 75mm sherman ?

Why not turn it to a US panther with less survivability but still way cheaper then ?

I propose(d) something similar to this. I would suggest the base 76mm Sherman would have the same cost/performance as it does now, but would feature a "late war" upgrade (20-50FU and maybe some MP) per tank that would give it HVAP rounds (, more range maybe) and an armor or HP buff. This would effectively buff its performance to around Panther levels and give the USF arsenal a 'main battle tank' (besides the Pershing) that its stock army roster lacks.

This would be a pretty unique approach as it gives the vehicle a lot of scalability (early deployment while the upgrade ensures its use into late game). Opens up more strategies besides the two usual ones (M36 spam or stalling for Pershing).

A ez8 with no ai except pintle, 260 armor and hvap penetration that cost, lets's say, 165 fuel and has 50 range would be acceptable

So it has as range as Tiger at Vet2 and better AI because of high explosives versus a 235 fuel vehicle which gets penetranted by nearly everything?

I don't get it. Tiger, with limit to one, high pop-cap and high price has to get 55 or 60 range and has to lose its role as break through unit.

Tiger is now a huge Panzer 4 and I don't see a reason to get it abouth Brummbär and some StuGs or Panther.

Why not give it same gun as Firefly and give it an ability for one direct high explosive shot?


Etc. Make Tiger Ace a normal Tiger and give it 5 Stars with two new Vets like extra sight etc.

this sugeestions to sherman: lol.

why not let it be a jackson with the AI from HE sherman? to a price from ost p4? and dont remind me that USF can exploit the popcap...and have pios in every single tank (mostly).

well....why not give them abrahms?

40 range "Jackson" with slightly more pen than m10 and slower reload speed?
Thats surely going to be OP