Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

I also wanted to add a few new suggestions for the Ost commanders, seeing as the Forward HQs are being combined with field buildings, I suggest the German FHQ be combined with some bunker upgrades, a 4th upgrade for repair pioneers and an upgrade for the command bunker to allow for the forward retreat.

Another thing for the Defensive commander is the replacement of the StuG E with a command Panzer IV since it fits more with the commander's more defensive theme.

As for the Infantry doctrine, give the Arty officer a forward retreat like the Soviet commissar and perhaps either the StuG E or Short barreled Panzer IV could replace the problematic Stormtroopers or Sprint, both tanks were used in the infantry support role.

Few cents to a German Infantry Commander

1. PanzerShrek upgrade for Stormtroopers with their close combat, stealth style doesn't really works for them. 1 shrek isn't a serious thread to anything and really decrease your AI capabilities to 25%.
Can we consider adding a "AT package" which also with shrek would include posibility to lay shu mines or teller mines and decrease price (of an upgrade) even more to 60 ammo. I mean currently it's not really worth getting option - should be more atractive. Not suggesting any form of AT granade becouse with cammo that could be too deadly.

Perhaps add an option for the Stormtroopers to 'put away' their Panzershreck like Sturmpioneers can put away the minesweeper? This would further make Stormtroopers more attractive compared to Panzergrenadiers because they wouldn't have to sacrifice their situational AI to get some light AT.

Perhaps add an option for the Stormtroopers to 'put away' their Panzershreck like Sturmpioneers can put away the minesweeper? This would further make Stormtroopers more attractive compared to Panzergrenadiers because they wouldn't have to sacrifice their situational AI to get some light AT.

+1 good idea!

No chance that relic can put Command Panther behind tier 4 and Ostwind back as call in ?

I can't get why a vehicle that provides no AT in a commander with no techless AT can't be left as call in, and why it was even locked beyond its actual tier.
Meanwhile command panther is a call in crutch.

No chance that relic can put Command Panther behind tier 4 and Ostwind back as call in ?

I can't get why a vehicle that provides no AT in a commander with no techless AT can't be left as call in, and why it was even locked beyond its actual tier.
Meanwhile command panther is a call in crutch.

I agree that the Ostwind should be a call-in. It was already behind CP 8 - same as KV-1 - and came out VERY late for a pure AI unit. You barely see players pick scavange doc now, would change if Ostwind would be call-in again. (Especially after Jaeger buff)

I am all for the KV-2 buffs, but Urban Defense doctrine definitely should NOT get this unit IMO.

I use this doctrine a lot, and I still think KV2 isn't really fair here. The way how this doc works in the live version is that you use the FHQs to throw yourself at the opponent so you block his way to VPs or important resource points, means you aim for a very fast win on VPs (or cuz you or your teammates out-teched the enemy completely). So by the time the enemy destroyed the FHQs, he has to face mines, booby traps, superior teching and teammates who dug in, making it extremely hard to come back for him; all that at the cost of a poor lategame and extremely delayed teching.


But now with KV-2 you have a strong late game as well... I can see people just spamming one FHQ after the other until they call-in a KV-2 without even teching to t3 or t4.

And also... now where the incendiary barrage got removed and booby trap cost got changed to 50, this will just be another doctrine where you float tons of munitions cuz u cant spend it on anything. I suggest reverting the "swap incendiary barrage with KV2" change.

I am all for the KV-2 buffs, but Urban Defense doctrine definitely should NOT get this unit IMO.

I use this doctrine a lot, and I still think KV2 isn't really fair here. The way how this doc works in the live version is that you use the FHQs to throw yourself at the opponent so you block his way to VPs or important resource points, means you aim for a very fast win on VPs (or cuz you or your teammates out-teched the enemy completely). So by the time the enemy destroyed the FHQs, he has to face mines, booby traps, superior teching and teammates who dug in, making it extremely hard to come back for him; all that at the cost of a poor lategame and extremely delayed teching.


But now with KV-2 you have a strong late game as well... I can see people just spamming one FHQ after the other until they call-in a KV-2 without even teching to t3 or t4.

And also... now where the incendiary barrage got removed and booby trap cost got changed to 50, this will just be another doctrine where you float tons of munitions cuz u cant spend it on anything. I suggest reverting the "swap incendiary barrage with KV2" change.

About the muni argument i am kind of on your side.
But hey: You know can pick this doc even when there are no house on a map

No chance that relic can put Command Panther behind tier 4 and Ostwind back as call in ?

I can't get why a vehicle that provides no AT in a commander with no techless AT can't be left as call in, and why it was even locked beyond its actual tier.
Meanwhile command panther is a call in crutch.

Call-in Ostwind was as much as cancer as M10 was. You can't really be serious.

Call-in Ostwind was as much as cancer as M10 was. You can't really be serious.

How so ? It was 8 CP, it cane at the exact same moment the wehr tier 3 was avaiable and could do jackshit against vehicles.
M10 countered vehicles and crushed infantry.

Completely different stuff.

How so ? It was 8 CP, it cane at the exact same moment the wehr tier 3 was avaiable and could do jackshit against vehicles.
M10 countered vehicles and crushed infantry.

Completely different stuff.

OKW has a much stronger early game and T0 ATGs, the Ostwind was the lazy call-in to keep on the pressure, from shock unit to shock unit and could often be used in groups to keep the enemy base pinned.
The M10 was often used to survive Ostwinds, because they would arrive before you could stabilize and tech up, one of them leaving means the other one should also go. You can't have Call-In Prostwinds while USF has M10s tied to tech.

I am all for the KV-2 buffs, but Urban Defense doctrine definitely should NOT get this unit IMO.

I use this doctrine a lot, and I still think KV2 isn't really fair here. The way how this doc works in the live version is that you use the FHQs to throw yourself at the opponent so you block his way to VPs or important resource points, means you aim for a very fast win on VPs (or cuz you or your teammates out-teched the enemy completely). So by the time the enemy destroyed the FHQs, he has to face mines, booby traps, superior teching and teammates who dug in, making it extremely hard to come back for him; all that at the cost of a poor lategame and extremely delayed teching.


But now with KV-2 you have a strong late game as well... I can see people just spamming one FHQ after the other until they call-in a KV-2 without even teching to t3 or t4.

And also... now where the incendiary barrage got removed and booby trap cost got changed to 50, this will just be another doctrine where you float tons of munitions cuz u cant spend it on anything. I suggest reverting the "swap incendiary barrage with KV2" change.

+1 totally agree

OKW has a much stronger early game and T0 ATGs, the Ostwind was the lazy call-in to keep on the pressure, from shock unit to shock unit and could often be used in groups to keep the enemy base pinned.
The M10 was often used to survive Ostwinds, because they would arrive before you could stabilize and tech up, one of them leaving means the other one should also go. You can't have Call-In Prostwinds while USF has M10s tied to tech.

CP 8 made it come way after luchs and ostwind had nowhere the shockvalue of actual rushed luchs, so your point about USF not being able to handle it is null.

M10 made Major tech obsolete and unneeded even at late game.

ostwind is totally weak compared the other AI based tanks.

Okay, who thought of giving Ostheer 960 HP 35 armor repair staion for 250 MP and X munitions?
These things would be undestructible by howitzers and rocket artillery.
There would be zero counterplay to this and more importantly - bunkers are already purest of form of cancer in teamgames, they cost zero popcap unlike Brit emplacements and could be easily spammed in lategame
What did you even think when coming up with that idea?
Did you even bother check stats on Soviet repair station? Like check it's hp/armor and cost compared to these bunkers?

ostwind is totally weak compared the other AI based tanks.

Germans don't need to have the best of everything.

Okay, who thought of giving Ostheer 960 HP 35 armor repair staion for 250 MP and X munitions?
These things would undestructible by howitzers and rocket artillery.
There would be zero counterplay to this and more importantly - bunkers are already purest of form of cancer in teamgames, they cost zero popcap unlike Brit emplacements and could be easily spammed in lategame
What did even think when coming up with that idea?
Did you even bother check stats on Soviet repair station? Like check it's hp/armor and cost compared to these bunkers?

Curb your passive aggressiveness, stats can be and probably will be adjusted, plus nothing here is set in stone, they could as easily just make it an upgrade for the regular bunker depending on it's performance.

Looking forward to testing the new 221/223. I'm a bit concerned about its timing but otherwise shaping up to be a great unit and a welcome edition to OKW. Changes to OST commanders look great, too!

Curb your passive aggressiveness, stats can be and probably will be adjusted, plus nothing here is set in stone, they could as easily just make it an upgrade for the regular bunker depending on it's performance.

Upgrade for a bunker that cost 25mp more than actual repair stations and has 640hp? Nice one

Upgrade for a bunker that cost 25mp more than actual repair stations and has 640hp? Nice one

"As(s)ymmetrical balance" as people answer most of my logical suggestions.

Concrete Bunkers will put a stop to anything early game on those MOBA style maps with lanes, sure to ruin a lot of games, completely denying infantry play in maps you can't flank it. Even if you flank it has the health of a Panther, will a Paratrooper Demo even kill it in one use?