Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

Concrete Bunkers will put a stop to anything early game on those MOBA style maps with lanes, sure to ruin a lot of games, completely denying infantry play in maps you can't flank it. Even if you flank it has the health of a Panther, will a Paratrooper Demo even kill it in one use?

It'll take time, but I'm sure people will solve it the way they solved BOFORs doing the same thing when they were first introduced.

It'll take time, but I'm sure people will solve it the way they solved BOFORs doing the same thing when they were first introduced.

Ah, so they are going to cost you fuel, lock you from light vehicle and cost you population cap?

It'll take time, but I'm sure people will solve it the way they solved BOFORs doing the same thing when they were first introduced.

I know a lot of players felt violated by the Bofors stopping headon blob assaults on it in the past, but this is different, as Katitof said this piece of shit costs no fuel, only locks out your doctrine (You still got PanzerWiper, StuPa and Panther with it for lategame) and costs no manpower upkeep due to costing no popcap.

This will make Red Ball Express 100% veto map again.

I feel like I’m ok with concrete bunkers tbh, the doctrine as a whole doesn’t really have much going for it. It’s not like it has an elefant at the end of the tree or any game winning abilities. If concrete bunkers are the best thing it has then it’s whatever.

I feel like I’m ok with concrete bunkers tbh, the doctrine as a whole doesn’t really have much going for it. It’s not like it has an elefant at the end of the tree or any game winning abilities. If concrete bunkers are the best thing it has then it’s whatever.

So Osttruppen/Pak43/Stug E/Sector arty is not much? That combination alone makes it better Osttrupen doctrine, thats without bunkers.

Concrete Bunkers will put a stop to anything early game on those MOBA style maps with lanes, sure to ruin a lot of games, completely denying infantry play in maps you can't flank it. Even if you flank it has the health of a Panther, will a Paratrooper Demo even kill it in one use?

It is tied in with Pak43, so it will be at 8CP. That's plenty of CP to bring out AT guns and medium tanks to counter the bunkers, especially in team games. HP/armor stats can be tweaked.

Ah, so they are going to cost you fuel, lock you from light vehicle and cost you population cap?

Oh please. Do they also fire in a 360 degree arc, damage light vehicles and have good squad wiping potential? This comparison is stupid.



Andy, does the 221/223 have the same 1,5x accuracy multiplier against snipers that the 222 has?

It is tied in with Pak43, so it will be at 8CP. That's plenty of CP to bring out AT guns and medium tanks to counter the bunkers, especially in team games. HP/armor stats can be tweaked.



Oh please. Do they also fire in a 360 degree arc, damage light vehicles and have good squad wiping potential? This comparison is stupid.



Andy, does the 221/223 have the same 1,5x accuracy multiplier against snipers that the 222 has?

If you walk up a squad up a bofors and it gets wiped, then you deserved that and worse, tbh.

So Osttrupen/Pak43/Stug E/Sector arty is not much? That combination alone makes it better Osttrupen doctrine, thats without bunkers.

Yeah it really isn’t. Sector arty is a really shit ability that’s completely dependent on your enemy not noticing a giant highlighted sector on the map, pak43 is good but with the proper loading screen preparation is really easy to deal with, and ostruppen have a pretty hard time dealing with elite Infantry, and if u go ostruppen you’ll probably skip t1, which is pretty risky.

Yeah it really isn’t. Sector arty is a really shit ability that’s completely dependent on your enemy not noticing a giant highlighted sector on the map, pak43 is good but with the proper loading screen preparation is really easy to deal with, and ostruppen have a pretty hard time dealing with elite Infantry, and if u go ostruppen you’ll probably skip t1, which is pretty risky.

It's still above everything Osttrupen doctrine offers, making your point about this commander being underwhelming pretty obviously dishonest.

It's still above everything Osttrupen doctrine offers, making your point about this commander being underwhelming pretty obviously dishonest.

???? So if an underwhelming doctrine is better than a more underwhelming doctrine it’s strong???

???? So if an underwhelming doctrine is better than a more underwhelming doctrine it’s strong???

Who said Osttruppen is underwhelming? Did you even watch GCS?

221/223 (Replaces Signal Relay)
-221 available from the Command HQ after any truck has been converted.
-Costs 220 manpower and 20 fuel.
-221 capable of dropping medical kits.
-Can be upgraded for 100 manpower and 10 fuel to a 223;
223 is able to lockdown territory and generates additional income. Also automatically detects armoured vehicles on the minimap within range 85 of the vehicle without needing to lockdown.
-Gains shared veterancy.
-Veterancy similar to 222, except veterancy 1. 'Defensive Smoke' replaces 'Infantry Awareness'. Smoke similar to Panzer Tactician.

I think that should have a button or something that enable the ability

I feel like concrete bunkers can be balanced by construction time. A lot of the fear surrounding these bunkers is that they'll be too strong early game. They hit the field fairly late at 8cp! And while they may be ridiculously sturdy, I feel this can be balanced by putting more of a construction tax on Pioneers. After all, it is concrete, and permanent structures are time consuming to build. You'd have to pay with a big time investment not spent repairing your PzIV or StuG.

While all this hate is going on about Concrete Bunkers, I still don't agree with the StuG E. I think the StuG E is better replaced by Reigel mines or something defensive. Perhaps hull-down? The doctrine so far seems already quite strong, so having a little bit of a meh ability wouldn't be too bad.

Here's a thought: Why don't we make hull-down tanks some suppression on their MG's (maybe Maxim-esque suppression) and a smaller target size rather than the current range and received damage? Ostwinds could have suppression on their main gun instead, so it can be like a squishier, less-suppressiony version of a Panzer HQ.

Andy, does the 221/223 have the same 1,5x accuracy multiplier against snipers that the 222 has?

It does have the bonus vs snipers at 1.5.

It does have the bonus vs snipers at 1.5.

Yeah I noticed, snipers die in a single burst if they are caught before retreating. This might need to be toned down a bit, lol. Especially because the car will push them out of any heavy cover they are in.
3-4 burst on retreat, this seems appropiate.

I love it already as a pretty good counter to UC/scout car, snipers and HMGs which are inherently OKW's weakness.


I'm assuming the 1 limit on (FuG) radio is intentional?

I like that German Infantry lost the fairly redundant Artillery Officer, and I hope that finally gives the 250 something valuable!

Defensive might have too much overlap with Osttruppen, though. I'd like to repeat my idea of Festungspioneers; an upgrade like Heavy Sappers that gives 2 PzB39 AT rifles.

If the 221/223 becomes final, could the OST 222 bulletins be added to OKW?

i think stormtroopers are very bad would be fine if u gave them stg upgrades back and buff stun grenades

Played a couple of games with ze Germans, here's my opinions:

221/223 is very, very nice, however it would be better I think if the Logistik upgrade would be separate since it makes sense to limit the FuG to 1 because of the vehicle sensor but not for the lockdown ability.

Maybe the FuG could be separated into 2 upgrades:

Command Car and Logistiks Car, the Command Car being limited to one and having the Relay and the Logistiks Car being able to capture and lockdown territory? Sounds fair to me, at least on paper.

The 250 for German Infantry came at a surprise for me but I still think it would be nice if it could reinforce as well, I would go as far as to be willing to pay for the ability even if I'm honest. Reinforcement upgrade for like, 40 ammo or like, some manpower and fuel, similar to the 223 FuG upgrade sounds good.

Stormtroopers are still... well I wouldn't go this doctrine for them that's for sure.

It looks to me like the 5 man squads is probably going to be the 1 and only reason to go this commander sadly in it's current state, I again propose the F1 Panzer IV with the short barrel be added instead of the Sprint ability, something new and unique to support your infantry, as it was it's intended role in real life as well, that's the reason for it's short barrel 75mm gun with the intent to "bust bunkers" so to speak, the Panzer III M with the long barreled 50mm gun was used for AT purposes but lacked good HE ammo, hence the use for the Stubby PZ4, just some background info.

As for Defensive, the Bunkers are a really nice blast from the past, as is the 223 for the OKW, however sadly they overlap with the regular bunkers too much and are in the same case as the MG42 was for the OKW Fortifications doctrine, it's nice, it's superior to what you have by default but there is too big of an overlap, plus as we can all see they might present a balance problem.

The repair pioneers are a really big welcomed addition to a basically repair-starved Army so to speak.

So with the idea in mind to keep them but also do something with the Concrete bunkers I thought of these:

Additional bunker upgrades could be combined with Defensive Tools instead of the Pak 43.

Concrete bunkers either replace or are an upgrade for regular bunkers, similar to the UKF Fortified upgrade for emplacements for the Advanced Emplacements Regiment, to get rid of the overlap.

I even thought about combining the Pak 43 with the Lefh 19 but then again that would leave a black hole in a fair bit of doctrines with a new freed up slot.

So then I thought about having the LeFH 19 replace Sector Artillery, and have the Command bunker get it instead, or Bunkers get a "radio" upgrade that allows them to setup a forward retreat point and call in sector artillery, similar to the Defensive doctrine for the Wehrmacht in CoH, difference is that they could only call in registered artillery on themselves.

I think that given a Command Panzer IV instead of the StuG E, a LefH 19 instead of Sector Artillery, and Sector Artillery instead being given to either the CPZ4 or the Bunkers through the Defensive Tools, as well as a Forward Retreat point, would give the Doctrine enough support utility to warrant bigger use from players.

Sure you won't have Elite infantry or Tigers, but heavy guns, a forward retreat point, repair pioneers, a Commander in a tank and loyal non-German soldiers to build and man your lines would surely be enough to hold the line against the Xeno... erhm I mean Soviet dogs.

Edit: Of course alternatively the Pak 43 could still be combined with some Bunker upgrades instead of Entrenching Tools to give the commander slot some more utility, or maybe an upgrade for a 17 pounder style emplacement around it for some beefed up protection so it doesn't get insta-nuked?

I feel like concrete bunkers can be balanced by construction time. A lot of the fear surrounding these bunkers is that they'll be too strong early game. They hit the field fairly late at 8cp! And while they may be ridiculously sturdy, I feel this can be balanced by putting more of a construction tax on Pioneers. After all, it is concrete, and permanent structures are time consuming to build. You'd have to pay with a big time investment not spent repairing your PzIV or StuG.

While all this hate is going on about Concrete Bunkers, I still don't agree with the StuG E. I think the StuG E is better replaced by Reigel mines or something defensive. Perhaps hull-down? The doctrine so far seems already quite strong, so having a little bit of a meh ability wouldn't be too bad.

Here's a thought: Why don't we make hull-down tanks some suppression on their MG's (maybe Maxim-esque suppression) and a smaller target size rather than the current range and received damage? Ostwinds could have suppression on their main gun instead, so it can be like a squishier, less-suppressiony version of a Panzer HQ.

I think received damage is a better solution than target size changes since the former is not subject to so much rng. You might not get hit for like 4-5 shots in a row or all 4-5 of those shots could hit your tank, while received damage is more of a constant.