Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

When it comes to storm-troopers one keep in mind what the original design was. They where designed to to cut off enemy sector so that one could pull close the pocket.

That's a fair point. Maybe German Infantry Doctrine would be better off reworking Assault Grenadiers instead of Stormtroopers.

When it comes to storm-troopers one keep in mind what the original design was. They where designed to to cut off enemy sector so that one could pull close the pocket.

Later their introduced to elite troops to replace the gap left from troop training.

If one want to redesign the unit one would also have to redesign the encirclement commander.

And imo that is what the problem if the current commander revamp approach. Instead of focus on fixing the commander in scope it tries to fix balance/many commanders and it ends up to create at least as many issues as it solves.

Either make the unit and elite infantry and redesign encirclement commander or remove it from infantry commander and focus the energy in making the commanders work with out trying to balance the whole game.

Exactly why I suggested that Urban Assault PGs replace them.

check patch notes:
Dozer starts with 720 HP and gets 0.8 (vet 2) damage reduction reaching EHP 900.
Brumbar has 800 HP and and gets armor bonus.

Dozer got buffed allot in the mod (overbuffed imo) and if one want to model it after Brumbar one has to keep in mind that is still call-in with no tech cost or upgrade with MU that is fighting against infantry with less entities.

Damage reduction comes at vet2, unless you swap crews it will not be online inmediatly, being a Sherman anything above a Mauser wil easily penetrate it as well unlike the StuPa.

Well... The Wehrmacht can use MG42s and Paks to protect the StuPa, which are much better than the American equivalent, not that having more models makes any difference when two shots wipe you either way.
I'll have to see how it behaves in the newest iteration but it has a lot of competition for me to think it will be better than a HE Sherman or 2 Scotts.

Well If M42 AT gun is here to stay it needs ability similar to USF gun (Tungsten ammo) to buff PEN to levels where it can actually deal with mediums instead of becoming worthless after light vehicles phase is over

Well If M42 AT gun is here to stay it needs ability similar to USF gun (Tungsten ammo) to buff PEN to levels where it can actually deal with mediums instead of becoming worthless after light vehicles phase is over

Actually instead of overlapping with Zis it should become allot better vs light vehicles. The unit cost 200 manpower as much a R.E. squad it should not be able to deal with mediums.

It was designed as stop gap to promote T1 play and it should stick to that role.

Faster reaction time, high accuracy, high rotation speed that is what it needs not more penetration.

...
I'll have to see how it behaves in the newest iteration but it has a lot of competition for me to think it will be better than a HE Sherman or 2 Scotts.

Then simply test the unit before you complain that it is penetrate by "anything above mauser"...

Faster reaction time, high accuracy, high rotation speed that is what it needs not more penetration.

Absolutely, don't forget faster movement speed while cloaked. Perhaps to help it stay useful in the late game at vet 3 it could slightly slow enemy armour with each hit. So it can help support tanks or other AT guns.

The German Infantry five-man change will make the commander mandatory in literally every matchup.

Literally EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM (except the 222 not being armored) the Wehrmacht has, including but not limited to...

• Being insta-wiped by grenades and mines due to model bunching (which still, to this day, isn't fixed, while Allied squads sprawl themselves across half the map with five or more models, becoming immune to grenades)
  
• Not being able to crew abandoned enemy setup weapons without losing the crewing squad after just a single model loss
  
• Inability to take enemy fire long enough to bring up AT guns/tanks or land artillery hits or perform a flank
  
• Losing literally all one-on-one fights against all Allied infantry
  
• Complete inability to survive long enough to chase away a sniper and still remain a threat on the field
  

...is solved by giving Ostheer five-man squads and allowing them to actually survive long enough during engagements to get things done.

Costs don't matter (although I'm sure they'll be absurdly high for something all factions should have for free simply because more models is always, under all circumstances, an advantage), build time doesn't matter, no restrictions matter.

Having five-man squads will make Ostheer squads actually perform the way Allied squads perform, and that'll be infinitely preferable, even if it means stacking AT guns instead of bringing out early armor, simply because Ostheer has more trouble early game than any other time of a match.

The German Infantry five-man change will make the commander mandatory in literally every matchup.

Literally EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM (except the 222 not being armored) the Wehrmacht has, including but not limited to...

• Being insta-wiped by grenades and mines due to model bunching (which still, to this day, isn't fixed, while Allied squads sprawl themselves across half the map with five or more models, becoming immune to grenades)
  
• Not being able to crew abandoned enemy setup weapons without losing the crewing squad after just a single model loss
  
• Inability to take enemy fire long enough to bring up AT guns/tanks or land artillery hits or perform a flank
  
• Losing literally all one-on-one fights against all Allied infantry
  
• Complete inability to survive long enough to chase away a sniper and still remain a threat on the field
  

...is solved by giving Ostheer five-man squads and allowing them to actually survive long enough during engagements to get things done.

Costs don't matter (although I'm sure they'll be absurdly high for something all factions should have for free simply because more models is always, under all circumstances, an advantage), build time doesn't matter, no restrictions matter.

Having five-man squads will make Ostheer squads actually perform the way Allied squads perform, and that'll be infinitely preferable, even if it means stacking AT guns instead of bringing out early armor, simply because Ostheer has more trouble early game than any other time of a match.

I think your concerns are legitimate to an extent, but I disagree with some things mentioned.

I do not agree that the commander will become mandatory in literally every matchup. If every single problem that the Wehrmacht has is caused by small squad sizes, then I would argue that they don't have that many problems compared to their Allied counterparts. I played two matches as Wehrmacht tonight where I ran into everything on your list. It was frustrating, however only one of the matches was a loss.

I also don't understand what you're advocating for. Do you think that the commander shouldn't include five-man squads because it will be too powerful? Do you think that every Wehrmacht squad should be increased by one model by default?

I think that with their current stats, weapons, and abilities the Wehrmacht infantry would probably be flat out superior to most Allied infantry if they were given an extra model. I think it was wise of the devs to not allow a larger squad in addition to an LMG42 with this ability.

The German Infantry five-man change will make the commander mandatory in literally every matchup.

Ostheer already have assault grenadier and ostruppen, which have 5 or more entities in squad. Did those commander become mandatory? Nope.

The German Infantry five-man change will make the commander mandatory in literally every matchup.

Literally EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM (except the 222 not being armored) the Wehrmacht has, including but not limited to...

• Being insta-wiped by grenades and mines due to model bunching (which still, to this day, isn't fixed, while Allied squads sprawl themselves across half the map with five or more models, becoming immune to grenades)
  
• Not being able to crew abandoned enemy setup weapons without losing the crewing squad after just a single model loss
  
• Inability to take enemy fire long enough to bring up AT guns/tanks or land artillery hits or perform a flank
  
• Losing literally all one-on-one fights against all Allied infantry
  
• Complete inability to survive long enough to chase away a sniper and still remain a threat on the field
  

...is solved by giving Ostheer five-man squads and allowing them to actually survive long enough during engagements to get things done.

Costs don't matter (although I'm sure they'll be absurdly high for something all factions should have for free simply because more models is always, under all circumstances, an advantage), build time doesn't matter, no restrictions matter.

Having five-man squads will make Ostheer squads actually perform the way Allied squads perform, and that'll be infinitely preferable, even if it means stacking AT guns instead of bringing out early armor, simply because Ostheer has more trouble early game than any other time of a match.

I see your point but I think you going to far with this.

You have to pay 60 ammo per squad and keep in mind you have to reinforce that extra model (+30mp) - that makes a big drain of MP. Problem would be if they could be equipt with lmg42 but they can't (though wonder what they could do if they pick weapon).

Commander itself doesn't have good call in artillery (fragmentation bombs are okish but they can be dodge), there is no call in tanks, no heavies. Generally commander is really interesting but doesn't seem overpower in any sense.

still no one talking about the OPness of Stug E, great Kappa

Here some other considerations after some 2v2 custom matches i played recently

1) NKVD commander it's great,every ability is useful and this is how a commander should be designed, probably this is not competitive as others but i think it's in a good spot.

2) Urban Defence is still garbage. I didn't test the buffed shocks but the remaining abilities are meh ( booby traps are fine). Incendiary artillery as "final" unlock is a joke. Right now this commander is far away from being "competitive"
It could be a good idea removing that little at gun ( there is really no point getting that thing, unless you are doing very very bad and you need a fast AT out to counter 222s or flame HT xD).
I'd suggest to replace that with a kv2 or a is2, i would say kv2 since there is only 1 commander with it.

3) German Infantry commander: it's an interesting commander but again, i don't find it really competitive compared to others.
I'm still not sure if renouncing to the lmg42 to get the 5th man is worth, it can help a lot preserving infantry in the later stage of the game, we all know the big issues for Ostheer infantry when units like scotts, comets, katyushas and so on hit the field.

3) German Infantry commander: it's an interesting commander but again, i don't find it really competitive compared to others.
I'm still not sure if renouncing to the lmg42 to get the 5th man is worth, it can help a lot preserving infantry in the later stage of the game, we all know the big issues for Ostheer infantry when units like scotts, comets, katyushas and so on hit the field.

LMGs haven't been viable for years.

G43s are the only weapon upgrade viable for Grenadiers because they never stop firing just like Allied weapon upgrades.

The LMG42 stops firing ALL THE TIME, even just while acquiring targets or while twitching slightly during combat or when a butterfly flies past the unit. It's so incredibly bad. And now that mortars properly counter garrisons, there's even less reason to get the overpriced, underperforming Grenader LMG than ever before.

Valetine is now cp5 exacly like grayhound dont u think its too late ? I mean for valetine cp5 is osom but not so great for grayhound. Maybe grayhound should be avaliable after captain or lieutenant tier?
Anyway i want to say i love new sexton, great work ! This thing is now perfect. Overall whole commander is great.
Port hamburg+sexton=gg wp

What about adding sprint to Stormtroopers so they can close in without bleeding as much? Maybe modify it so they can shoot while sprinting or give the ability RE or target size buffs. Compared to Shocks/Airbornes/Rangers/etc who can afford to lose a few models along the way this would compensate for the Stormtrooper squad's small size. Maybe even put in an ability that makes them fight harder the more models they lose (like the Penals one).

This would allow them to harass infantry much better which is their supposed role in most doctrines (especially in encirclement), instead of them becoming German Commandos clones (which apparently most people do not want).

I think I found a little glitch - Valentine's "Smoke Screen" can be used to target a location while in Observation Mode and it will light up as active, but the smoke grenades won't fire until you switch back into Combat Mode.

I guess this ability should be disabled while in Observation Mode or (preferably) changed so it can fire normally in the Observation Mode.

Actually instead of overlapping with Zis it should become allot better vs light vehicles. The unit cost 200 manpower as much a R.E. squad it should not be able to deal with mediums.

It was designed as stop gap to promote T1 play and it should stick to that role.

Faster reaction time, high accuracy, high rotation speed that is what it needs not more penetration.


Then simply test the unit before you complain that it is penetrate by "anything above mauser"...

RE are non-doc engineer squad, this is a doctrinal AT gun.
You can put zooks on RE and they can easily destroy even heavy armor, while m42 would stay useless beyond early game

RE are non-doc engineer squad, this is a doctrinal AT gun.
You can put zooks on RE and they can easily destroy even heavy armor, while m42 would stay useless beyond early game

It is a doctrinal AT vs light tanks. I suggest you calculate its chance to penetrate a Ostheer PzIV and check its penetration compared to of the 75mm PzIV has.

Then keep in mind that it cost 200 manpower.

200 manpower worth much more than 100 munitions for 2 bazookas or piats and performs much worse for it's cost, thanks for proving my point

The problem of the m42 light AT-gun isn't the price but the bleed and popcap it might be enough to scare of some light vehicles but in the lategame it becomes useless which goes against the principles of conserving units which scale and might get weaker with bigger and better counters but still work in combined arms if not focused or against lone squads or maybe function as antiair units. But the m42 can only scare light vehicles unless purchased in pairs so it isn't that costeffective early to justify its lategame performance.

Here is another solution for M42 - bundle it along with something else. Like PTRS Conscript squad callin or DShK.
Or you can give it Soviet version of Withdraw and Refit where you can simply sell this thing off after it's done it's job or replace it with ZiS after paying additional MP