Storm pioneers are too cheap and too fast to deploy

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Just stop man, you don't even play OKW.
Why should sturms not be winning engagements at close range? That's the only range that they even can. Keep your first rifleman and RE together and the sturmpio can't do anything. If they're aggressive for your cutoff with the second squad bleed the sturmpio and it's effectively out of the fight once your next riflesquad gets there. You will always have the leg up in the fight being so close to your own base. As long as you don't walk right up to the sturmpio you will bleed him more.

If he sends the sturmpio to the fuel then congratulations, he's wasting his most valuable unit capping and you can go somewhere else.

Are you guys listening to yourselves? Literally swap "Allied" and "Axis over in your own post and you sound exactly like the people you're bashing.

In 4vs4 w 4x OKW, my single RE got attacked by 8x SturmPioneers (2/player)
who all focused my RE as one. Edit: At close range. There were no RE survivors.

I think this proves SP are too strong and need a nerf.

I have spoken.

So you're claiming that the Allied fanbois give logical suggestions and Axis fanbois are unreasonable and ridiculous. Even though most of the threads crying/whining about balance are started by Allied fanbois.

What a totally fair and unbiased evaluation you're making.

When I say reasonable proposal, I don't mean "give M4s and AR-15s to Riflemen" and put depleted uranium armor on Jacksons. I mean something to balance the game for ALL factions. Yeah, I accept the fact that some Allies mains propose stupid ideas (like someone proposed no T0 mgs for Wehrmacht which is just stupid),but that doesn't diminish the stupidity of some Axis mains. Enough is enough with the balance in this game

Remove/reduce/pass around the extra 100mp they start with. The SwS is a good unit/tech requirement you could reduce mp wise so you would effectively keep the same overall teching cost.

/thread


SPs arent the issue IMO its more of the fact that volks come out so quickly that you get overwhelmed quickly.

The only thing that can compete with OKW field presence early is a sov Con spam strat and even then SPs + Volks are pretty good against cons.

elchino is right in that removing some starting mp and reducing sws cost will prevent OKW volk spam from dominating the field so quickly which should help against the immense early game pressure OKW has. While also keeping tech cost/time the same.

Just stop man, you don't even play OKW.
Why should sturms not be winning engagements at close range? That's the only range that they even can. Keep your first rifleman and RE together and the sturmpio can't do anything. If they're aggressive for your cutoff with the second squad bleed the sturmpio and it's effectively out of the fight once your next riflesquad gets there. You will always have the leg up in the fight being so close to your own base. As long as you don't walk right up to the sturmpio you will bleed him more.

If he sends the sturmpio to the fuel then congratulations, he's wasting his most valuable unit capping and you can go somewhere else.

Excuse me sir but can you help with me OKW? 1v1, crossroads, "at some point"hrs and "+ this" minutes from this post. OKW Zulu. You can take Free french forces. Join my friends list

In 4vs4 w 4x OKW, my single RE got attacked by 8x SturmPioneers (2/player)
who all focused my RE as one. Edit: At close range. There were no RE survivors.

I think this proves SP are too strong and need a nerf.

I have spoken.

Spam Rangers and do the same thing against ALL OKW troops. Watch them getting shred into pieces. You're welcome

I wouldn't mind Sturmpios getting a performance reduction in exchange for a price reduction.

Being able to finally afford 2 engineer squads would be a nice change.

In 4vs4 w 4x OKW, my single RE got attacked by 8x SturmPioneers (2/player)
who all focused my RE as one. Edit: At close range. There were no RE survivors.

I think this proves SP are too strong and need a nerf.

I have spoken.

Go play 1v1 or 2v2 if u care about balance. Nobody cares about what 4v4 players think.

I'm done with Mittens. I won't forget what he said about several units:
1) He said Jackson actually got a nerf when the cost increased despite it getting 25% more health. It was a general consensus that the Jackson is a lot better than before after the survivability buff make the cost MORE than worth it.
2) He actually had a problem with Ost Mgs arriving too quickly and claimed that mg spam can be used to "lock down" USF in a 2v2. Are you fucking kidding me? Who's locking who down early game? If mg spam is able to lock down anything it means that the rest of the map is not defended at all since it takes a mg wall to cover the flanks of adjacent mgs. Cap elsewhere and use the sides of the maps. You'll find that you can completely encircle mg spammers. Mittens is just a brute force USF player.
3) And now sturms are a problem? Seems everything that gives him problems is OP and therefore needs a nerf. Typical USF mentality. "Not my fault, axis op"

I wouldn't mind Sturmpios getting a performance reduction in exchange for a price reduction.

Being able to finally afford 2 engineer squads would be a nice change.

I would support that as long as the repair rates stay the same and it makes the allied fanboys happy so they stop complaining about everything axis.

I like the 2 stg 2 mp40 idea and a price reduction with an option to buy 2 slightly buffed STGs back so they COULD be used as an assault squad (and allow volks stg hordes pass the torch into something more combined armsish) maybe a rec acc buff as well? Let them buy the STGs and make them as durable as Tommies at least

Absoulutly true iif your playing as the soviets. However not true as WFA. Also that is a payoff for the super expensive tansk of the OKW. The jadpanzer 4 cost more fuel than a t34 85. Its ballanced.

Well i must say as an often 3v3/ 4v4 player the stormtrooper can be a real threat because if you push to much with them, you risk losing em stupidly and losing 300 mp and repair unit, if you want i'll send you a replay to highlight my point.

I would support that as long as the repair rates stay the same and it makes the allied fanboys happy so they stop complaining about everything axis.

I was thinking something like a reduction to 280mp and slight decrease in mid to close range performance. Preferably mid range since they can still deal decent damage behind cover a decent way away.

I still want the SPs to be a powerful early game unit though as its unique and they fall off the face of the earth past the 7 minute mark.

The real issue is volks and this is only because Allied suppression tools and a lot of their indirect is far too inadequate to deal with blobbing due to the overnerfs they received; Honestly, this game was a lot healthier 2 years ago before these overnerfs went live. Sturms are expensive, tied to too many roles that gimp their AI power, and die rather easy to focus fire when they aren't backed up appropriately. Bring back potent blob counters for Allies and I guarantee you that you won't find sturms or volks an issue any more.

It's sad to see this game turn more and more into a bad starcraft wannabe because we let some theory crafters try and play balance team for a year.

The real issue is volks and this is only because Allied suppression tools and a lot of their indirect is far too inadequate to deal with blobbing due to the overnerfs they received; Honestly, this game was a lot healthier 2 years ago before these overnerfs went live. Sturms are expensive, tied to too many roles that gimp their AI power, and die rather easy to focus fire when they aren't backed up appropriately. Bring back potent blob counters for Allies and I guarantee you that you won't find sturms or volks an issue any more.

It's sad to see this game turn more and more into a bad starcraft wannabe because we let some theory crafters try and play balance team for a year.

Actually the game is the most balanced it has been for many years, with the healthiest commander diversity we've seen in ages, and 3 (maybe 4) factions being viable.

OKW doesn't actually have any counters to blobbing either - if you want to describe it that way. Only Ost has the excellent mg42, everyone else has got to make do.

Actually the game is the most balanced it has been for many years, with the healthiest commander diversity we've seen in ages, and 3 (maybe 4) factions being viable.

OKW doesn't actually have any counters to blobbing either - if you want to describe it that way. Only Ost has the excellent mg42, everyone else has got to make do.

Yea, it's totally fun to play against mainline inf blobs every game. Good job, best balance achieved. What's the concurrent player count at again?

Actually the game is the most balanced it has been for many years, with the healthiest commander diversity we've seen in ages, and 3 (maybe 4) factions being viable.

OKW doesn't actually have any counters to blobbing either - if you want to describe it that way. Only Ost has the excellent mg42, everyone else has got to make do.

I refute your statement about healthiest commander diversity.

Right now, yeah a lot of stuff seems to be up in the air because a bunch of stuff may get tossed in a blender and it'll shake things up. That certainly can create an atmosphere where people are trying to come up with new metagames for when the current one is dumpstered with a patch.

But at the same time, one of the significant reasons there's a push for this is because the commander pool is just as stagnant as it has been the entire life of CoH2. Example: Ostheer uses Mobile Defense all the time, which has been deemed irredeemable and it's likely going to be changed. Tournament players weren't even putting in other commanders in their loadout.

We have never achieved healthy commander diversity, and we've never once achieved 5 balanced factions. A 3, maybe 4, balanced faction scenario is where we've been since WFA.

I will freely admit though, that at various times in CoH2's history, there was a mostly balanced, highly enjoyable matchup between two factions: Ostheer and Soviets.

Yea, it's totally fun to play against mainline inf blobs every game. Good job, best balance achieved. What's the concurrent player count at again?

https://steamcharts.com/app/231430#All



I mean, for a 5 year old game, retaining that amount of people is remarkable.

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We have never achieved healthy commander diversity, and we've never once achieved 5 balanced factions. A 3, maybe 4, balanced faction scenario is where we've been since WFA.

Maybe right before WFA was released and Ele/ISU were nerfed ?

Commander diversity is a bitch to fix, but you can at least reduce the gap in power level between meta commanders and non meta ones. At the end of the day, there's always gonna be a tier 1 commanders but at least we should had a healthy pool of tier 2 and niche options. Also not all commanders should work on 1v1. It's fine that a pool of commanders are only good for teamgames.
EFA commander pool is FUBAR due to the number of them.

For the 8 pool commander factions, if 4 are viable picks, 2 niche and 2 work mostly on teamgames only, i think it would be fine.