Storm pioneers are too cheap and too fast to deploy

I don't know why you keep focusing on this, the problem isn't that OKW beat USF for the 5 first minutes, it is that USF is design to beat their opponent during that time or they lose. USF isn't design to perform comeback unlike Ostheer is.

Now this is a load of bullshit. 5 minutes will not break the game for USF. Then how does Ostheer deal with it's disadvantage vs USF for the first FIFTEEN minutes? How does Ost have better comeback mechanics than USF? How do u get the fuel for a panther when the USF player is dominating you hard, you'll be stuck with tier 3 units which are hardly "great" late game units. If USF lose a rifle squad late game, they can double upgrade with bars and compete with veteran infantry, are non veteran axis infantry as effective vs veteran allied infantry? No because you can't double upgrade.

I target you and about 5-6 others because you play 1 faction in a single gamemode and then complain in every thread involving USF saying they're absolute garbage, should never be played, give tactical nuke to USF, give axis sticks.

If you wanna talk shit you can take it to the crossroads and 1v1 me and i'll give you OPW. Should be easy to win in 5 minutes as that's how OKW is nowadays.

But I'm not talking shit! That's something you do, to anyone and everyone who complains about how USF who gets abused by OKW, because they perform what USF gameplan used to be much better than they ever could by virtue of having a better starting unit, a light vehicle that can cap, cheaper mainline infantry that can build green cover and access to MG/ATG without needing to choose only one. Even their specialized light vehicles being better than what the USF has now.

I could just go AFK and let you Pridepost about that, just like ullumulu is doing as of late, maybe you'd like to do that too? ... You know that you can just disagree with me and say that you know better without being a douchebag, but if you are tired of us 5-6-7 others complaining about OKW, let me tell you aren't the only one tired of something.

Lol people still complaining about the starting sturmpio after 4 years.

Lol people still complaining about the starting sturmpio after 4 years.

It was honestly the only fun aspect of playing OKW.

But I'm not talking shit! That's something you do, to anyone and everyone who complains about how USF who gets abused by OKW, because they perform what USF gameplan used to be much better than they ever could by virtue of having a better starting unit, a light vehicle that can cap, cheaper mainline infantry that can build green cover and access to MG/ATG without needing to choose only one. Even their specialized light vehicles being better than what the USF has now.

I could just go AFK and let you Pridepost about that, just like ullumulu is doing as of late, maybe you'd like to do that too? ... You know that you can just disagree with me and say that you know better without being a douchebag, but if you are tired of us 5-6-7 others complaining about OKW, let me tell you aren't the only one tired of something.

I wouldn't expect any better of him, he has always thought that attacking the person behind the argument is the way to go.

Yes this isn't an insult or anything. I don't do this to random players who are looking to improve their game through tips and better micro. I do this to players who see the game through 1 dimentional glasses because there is zero possiblity that they are the absolute perfect player and everything they complain about is unbalanced.

I have tried to disagree to without acting like an ass for years. But again i'm doing this vs multiple people who will simply not consider any other point of view because their point of view is through a single gamemode and a single faction. There is no #ADAPT for these players, or at least it looks that way. It's complain here to try and change things they actually give them trouble because they want to upgrade their rifles with 2x BARs, drag box around all 3-4 + free squads, and click around the map. I've helped many players in the replay review section previously and I've offered it to a few of these players as well, but they don't want help, they just want nerfs vs the factions they play against.

1v1 tonight, crossroads, 3hrs and 15 minutes from this post. 00:00 Zulu. You can take OKW. Join "looking for group"

1v1 tonight, crossroads, 3hrs and 15 minutes from this post. 00:00 Zulu. You can take OKW. Join "looking for group"

Yeah, screw this.

You think a 1v1 proves anything? I'll take you up on it then. I'll stomp you, and it won't mean anything. It won't mean you're wrong. It won't mean Sidaroth is right either. And it won't validate whatever view I have on the topic of this thread.

Stop being petty. People are sitting on the sidelines laughing at how biased you two are and how completely unaware of it you both seem to be.

Yes this isn't an insult or anything. I don't do this to random players who are looking to improve their game through tips and better micro. I do this to players who see the game through 1 dimentional glasses because there is zero possiblity that they are the absolute perfect player and everything they complain about is unbalanced.

I have tried to disagree to without acting like an ass for years. But again i'm doing this vs multiple people who will simply not consider any other point of view because their point of view is through a single gamemode and a single faction. There is no #ADAPT for these players, or at least it looks that way. It's complain here to try and change things they actually give them trouble because they want to upgrade their rifles with 2x BARs, drag box around all 3-4 + free squads, and click around the map. I've helped many players in the replay review section previously and I've offered it to a few of these players as well, but they don't want help, they just want nerfs vs the factions they play against.

1v1 tonight, crossroads, 3hrs and 15 minutes from this post. 00:00 Zulu. You can take OKW. Join "looking for group"

It's not an insult, I'm merely stating a fact, you always do this to anyone who doesn't think OKW is perfectly balance if not a bit underpowered.
So just go and pridepost already, that I was too "cowardly" to 1vs1 you, have fun with that.
Just don't expect me to care about it one bit, the community will also likely don't care one bit either, they might just go like "Literally who beat who?".

Yeah, screw this.

You think a 1v1 proves anything? I'll take you up on it then. I'll stomp you, and it won't mean anything. It won't mean you're wrong. It won't mean Sidaroth is right either. And it won't validate whatever view I have on the topic of this thread.

Stop being petty. People are sitting on the sidelines laughing at how biased you two are and how completely unaware of it you both seem to be.

1v1 tonight, semoskiy summer, 3hrs and 15 minutes from this post. 00:00 Zulu. You can take OKW, I'll take OKW too. Join "Polski" group. Winner proves UKF OP.

Yeahhhhhhhh, I'm gonna request we calm down in this thread everyone. Please, only discuss the topic.

Yeah, screw this.

You think a 1v1 proves anything? I'll take you up on it then. I'll stomp you, and it won't mean anything. It won't mean you're wrong. It won't mean Sidaroth is right either. And it won't validate whatever view I have on the topic of this thread.

Stop being petty. People are sitting on the sidelines laughing at how biased you two are and how completely unaware of it you both seem to be.

point out the bias please. I own up to bias when I believe it's valid. Or are you just going to try end conversations like you have previously by leaving or saying I don't agree with you because it's my opinion. Opinions are fine, but understand opinions have little meaning unless they're backed up with a solid foundation. If sidaroth no shows then you're more than welcome to scrim me. You say you'll stomp me, congratulations I don't deny you're better than me. Being better doesn't make you right.

It's not an insult, I'm merely stating a fact, you always do this to anyone who doesn't think OKW is perfectly balance if not a bit underpowered.
So just go and pridepost already, that I was too "cowardly" to 1vs1 you, have fun with that.
Just don't expect me to care about it one bit, the community will also likely don't care one bit either, they might just go like "Literally who beat who?".

Even if it was a fact does not mean it is not an insult. Just an FYI though you threw shade at me first so don't be surprised when you get called out. Give me a post where I do this vs "anyone".

Show up or don't start crap.

And now because Vuther has asked nicely, PM me if you'd like this to continue.

1v1 tonight, semoskiy summer, 3hrs and 15 minutes from this post. 00:00 Zulu. You can take OKW, I'll take OKW too. Join "Polski" group. Winner proves UKF OP.

2v2 tonight, the scheldt, 15hrs and 3 minutes from this post. 13:37 Zulu. You and ullumulu can take Afrika Korps, Drones and I'll take space marines. Join "Rush B" group. Winner gets the all new hotchkiss commander for soviets

Edit: Winner gets promoted to orange

Yeahhhhhhhh, I'm gonna request we calm down in this thread everyone. Please, only discuss the topic.

Welp, at least we can say we got a nice copypasta out of this posts

The topic is Sturmpios are too "fast to deploy". Does that refer to their building time? Should we give Sturms 90 seconds build time then?

Welp, at least we can say we got a nice copypasta out of this posts

And on internet forums, thats the only thing that matters!

Yes this isn't an insult or anything. I don't do this to random players who are looking to improve their game through tips and better micro. I do this to players who see the game through 1 dimentional glasses because there is zero possiblity that they are the absolute perfect player and everything they complain about is unbalanced.

I have tried to disagree to without acting like an ass for years. But again i'm doing this vs multiple people who will simply not consider any other point of view because their point of view is through a single gamemode and a single faction. There is no #ADAPT for these players, or at least it looks that way. It's complain here to try and change things they actually give them trouble because they want to upgrade their rifles with 2x BARs, drag box around all 3-4 + free squads, and click around the map. I've helped many players in the replay review section previously and I've offered it to a few of these players as well, but they don't want help, they just want nerfs vs the factions they play against.

1v1 tonight, crossroads, 3hrs and 15 minutes from this post. 00:00 Zulu. You can take OKW. Join "looking for group"

I shouldn't have intervened here, it's not my duty to do that, but i find it ridiculous that you accuse each other for being biased over his prefered faction.

All i have to say is that since i joined here, all i see is people who main Axis to propose nerf ideas for Allies, but when Allies propose an idea (a logical idea so that you won't confuse it), you all turn it down because "Allies are op!!11!1!1!". I saw it in the thread about the Jackson, i saw it in the thread about your beloved King Tiger, i saw it in the thread about the "USF free squads", i see it in EVERY thread every day. You are all ridiculous, that's what i have to say

There are many ways to look at it, I'm sure we've already touched on all of them but there are many ways to change Sturm pios and yes theres not doubt in my mind that they can win early engagements that oftentimes are punishing in comparison to cost of the strumpio.

Ways to adjust Strumpios

• Change their base MP cost
  
• Put STGs behind a muni wall or put 2 extra behind a muni wall
  
• Give their STG its own profile
  
• Increase other factions starting MP
  

Their vet in my opinion is fine but we also need to considar that if we used an upgrade to STGs or something like that is that it would take their inventory slots which is okay as you have to choose utility / combat roles for them. That said the MP40 isn't a bad gun and can still be effective close range and they would still keep 2 stgs for early game.

I think changing faction starting MP would be the last thing to do really, that falls more under the line of game balance. I mean USF REs already suck thats easy to see, Brit RS nerf rly hit them hard, Soviet Penals are priced the same as strumpios but often time get dabbed on by strums. Sure there are many other factors to include in the example above such as the distance the sturms are at and yea we know just sit at range and fight strums but remember OKW volks are killers at range so what do factions like USF do? just sit and die I guess??

Anyhow hopefully we can work this out, in the long run I don't think sturms need that big of a change but their DPS should come down for the early game in some sort of manner.

There are many ways to look at it, I'm sure we've already touched on all of them but there are many ways to change Sturm pios and yes theres not doubt in my mind that they can win early engagements that oftentimes are punishing in comparison to cost of the strumpio.

Ways to adjust Strumpios

• Change their base MP cost
  
• Put STGs behind a muni wall or put 2 extra behind a muni wall
  
• Give their STG its own profile
  
• Increase other factions starting MP
  

Their vet in my opinion is fine but we also need to considar that if we used an upgrade to STGs or something like that is that it would take their inventory slots which is okay as you have to choose utility / combat roles for them. That said the MP40 isn't a bad gun and can still be effective close range and they would still keep 2 stgs for early game.

I think changing faction starting MP would be the last thing to do really, that falls more under the line of game balance. I mean USF REs already suck thats easy to see, Brit RS nerf rly hit them hard, Soviet Penals are priced the same as strumpios but often time get dabbed on by strums. Sure there are many other factors to include in the example above such as the distance the sturms are at and yea we know just sit at range and fight strums but remember OKW volks are killers at range so what do factions like USF do? just sit and die I guess??

Anyhow hopefully we can work this out, in the long run I don't think sturms need that big of a change but their DPS should come down for the early game in some sort of manner.

ofc u dont wna change ther vet cuz its hard to achieve and sucks too. U need to keep ur RE's at distance were sturmpioners cant do shit, same with brits inf, Penals tear them apart and can even do so at close range.

This is about sturms starting engagements and now u wna bring volks too, riflemen can still do decently well against volks at long range, and all u need to do is close the gap if you want to win the engagement. ANd once you start vetting up and upgrading riflemen will TEAR volks apart at all ranges.

+ you also now want their combat role to become a choice? so you have to choose between, STG's, sweepers or Anti tank, lol.

ofc u dont wna change ther vet cuz its hard to achieve and sucks too. U need to keep ur RE's at distance were sturmpioners cant do shit, same with brits inf, Penals tear them apart and can even do so at close range.

This is about sturms starting engagements and now u wna bring volks too, riflemen can still do decently well against volks at long range, and all u need to do is close the gap if you want to win the engagement. ANd once you start vetting up and upgrading riflemen will TEAR volks apart at all ranges.

+ you also now want their combat role to become a choice? so you have to choose between, STG's, sweepers or Anti tank, lol.

no need to be so negative I was suggesting not telling and don't talk down to me like I don't understand how engagement ranges work and how to treat both factions. You're suggestion of upgraded riflemen is later on in the game and most of this thread is in regards to opening stumpios.

yes I would considered picking up AT or STGs on strumpios as a choice would you not?

There's nothing wrong with the sturms being good early game. They taper off very quickly. It's all about making sure that you don't get tunnel vision for the first 5 min and bash yourself into a blob of OKW infantry. Cap where the OKW player isn't. For teamgames, avoidance is not possible so it's best to concede a bit more map control at first and consolidate the front line so OKW can't isolate one squad and shred it. This is especially important as USF as the other two factions have easy access to mgs. OKW has the worst midgame. If they go mech for a good midgame, they are significantly delaying their late game.

I shouldn't have intervened here, it's not my duty to do that, but i find it ridiculous that you accuse each other for being biased over his prefered faction.

All i have to say is that since i joined here, all i see is people who main Axis to propose nerf ideas for Allies, but when Allies propose an idea (a logical idea so that you won't confuse it), you all turn it down because "Allies are op!!11!1!1!". I saw it in the thread about the Jackson, i saw it in the thread about your beloved King Tiger, i saw it in the thread about the "USF free squads", i see it in EVERY thread every day. You are all ridiculous, that's what i have to say

So you're claiming that the Allied fanbois give logical suggestions and Axis fanbois are unreasonable and ridiculous. Even though most of the threads crying/whining about balance are started by Allied fanbois.

What a totally fair and unbiased evaluation you're making.