Recon nerfs needed?

In my opinion, some recon tools in this game are too good, I would even go that far that I say they are unfair.

I would like to share my suggested changes and hear your opinions about it

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Thoughts?

You forgot OKW Spec ops flares

You forgot OKW Spec ops flares

Hmm how would you change them? A cost increase maybe? Cuz at least their area of effect is much smaller than scout plane and they also dont reveal camouflaged units.

I find them completly OP because they cant be countered and their AOE actually increases over time and is very good at the end of the ability. Recon planes can be countered at least and more importantly don´t provide a constant source of vision. Spec Ops flares allow you to monitor what opponent is doing in key areas for extended periods of time.

I would keep them at the same cost they are at now but make it so their AOE doesnt increase over time anymore.

Vet 3 T70 Recon mode is completly OP. Not sure why community balance team thought this was a good idea. It´s already decent at vet 1 because of the capping and vet 2 for sight but at vet 3 it just becomes free map hacks. So yeah I agree with that.


Agree about the spotting scopes too.

Valentine is a bit more difficult because it needs to be reworked generally. OKW IR HT is ok IMO (unless it bugs out) and just needs a slight cost increase.

In regards to the t70 I will go ahead and assume that it's vet 3 probibly has low xp requirements as well.

Cuz at least their area of effect is much smaller than scout plane and they also dont reveal camouflaged units.

And at least recon planes can be shot down, sometimes immediately. That matters a lot to the two other differences you pointed out.

I find them completly OP

Brits have similar flares though iirc they drop randomly a bit. But in terms of countering them - similar.

Brits have similar flares though iirc they drop randomly a bit. But in terms of countering them - similar.

Yeah but come in a terrible doctrine with Valentine Sexton etc

Valentine/Sexton may be terrible now, but they could very much be reworked in the coming commander patch.

For the OKW spec ops flares you could have them be dropped from an aircraft like paratroopers, and if the aircraft goes down before the drop you lose the munis. Although for this to be balanced they’d have to make AA equal between factions instead of it being based entirely around RoF like it is currently.

Oh, is this what we're redesigning next?

Honestly every recon option that is tied to a unit is fine: It forces the player to make a choice to invest resources into a unit that has limited functionality that can be caught in the field and killed. If anything needed to be changed (And in my opinion it doesn't), it would be the recon abilities that have zero potential to be countered meaning the OKW Spec-Ops commander flares and the British Arty commander counterpart (timed random flare ability).

Most OP Recon ability is the Soviet mortar flare.
Spotting scope on Elefant is cheeseball city.

There are two mechanics in coh2 that are so underused, they had to be buffed overtime to avoid being forgotten. These two are recon and smoke. What we have now is the effect of these changes: recon is available in every second doctrine or even in base armies and units that supply it are dirt cheap becouse hardly anybody thinks it is worth to pay for them.

If somebody is not convinced, let me give you an example. We got a 222 price buff recently, becouse the unit was considered weak damage wise for its cost. Nobody seemed to remember that it is also one of the best recon units in game, especially with spotting scopes commander, which is part of what player should be paying for.

In effect of all these changes, and most notably the one that merged smoke and recon planes, the recon is very easy to get and it is finally being used. And this is in general a good thing. At least it makes coh2 players look smarter than we actually are If there is a problem with too much recon, then these free or very easy to use recon options should be made a little more tricky, so they were not always an obviously good choice.

Who needs recon when you have free maphax with flares and forward battlegroups from overwatch Doc.

I feel like the t70 recon at vet is about 10 range too much and maybe the deactivation should come with a penalty time before it can shoot again.

I normally refrain from commenting on the abilities and units from factions haven't played in a while, but being on the receiving end of OKW flares I feel its over performing.

There are three main problems with this ability, when compared to other standard recons:

1) There is absolutely no audio cue, green marker flare or green circle to indicate the ability is being used. The flares themselves are also sometimes difficult to spot on maps with white-ish terrain or are too high up in the air to notice. Quite often you don't know you being watched.

2) There is absolutely no way to counter or prevent the flares from providing vision of your position and then getting bombed back to the stone age by indirect and offmaps. For Brits, this is especially nasty as they rely a lot on team weapons and emplacements to get the upper hand.
There is just no risk in using this ability, just click, know where your enemy is and then bombs awway.

3) The cool down on the ability is about non-existent as it starts its cool down while its active. The flares last for about 35 sec, and the cooldown is 60 sec, so you need to wait 25 sec to use it again. Thats a bit much.

In team games, this ability gets used almost non-stop, probably owing to the popularity of the SpecOps commander and the commander not having anything else to really sink your munitions into. Recon and vision is such a powerful tool in this game and an ability that can provide it risk free and almost non-stop vision, in a faction that already has a non-doc maphack is just too much.

Suggested changes? Not sure, but a cooldown nerf and a green marker flare would be nice. Alternatively, swap it for a normal reacon plane.

Brit arty commander gets the sector flares which also can't be countered or have makers but it at least has the severe limit that you can't control where it goes, it only reveals front line sectors at random (some get flared, some do not) so it usually can't be used to reveal rear line fixed arty and has a long cool down.

I normally refrain from commenting on the abilities and units from factions haven't played in a while, but being on the receiving end of OKW flares I feel its over performing.

There are three main problems with this ability, when compared to other standard recons:

1) There is absolutely no audio cue, green marker flare or green circle to indicate the ability is being used. The flares themselves are also sometimes difficult to spot on maps with white-ish terrain or are too high up in the air to notice. Quite often you don't know you being watched.

2) There is absolutely no way to counter or prevent the flares from providing vision of your position and then getting bombed back to the stone age by indirect and offmaps. For Brits, this is especially nasty as they rely a lot on team weapons and emplacements to get the upper hand.
There is just no risk in using this ability, just click, know where your enemy is and then bombs awway.

3) The cool down on the ability is about non-existent as it starts its cool down while its active. The flares last for about 35 sec, and the cooldown is 60 sec, so you need to wait 25 sec to use it again. Thats a bit much.

In team games, this ability gets used almost non-stop, probably owing to the popularity of the SpecOps commander and the commander not having anything else to really sink your munitions into. Recon and vision is such a powerful tool in this game and an ability that can provide it risk free and almost non-stop vision, in a faction that already has a non-doc maphack is just too much.

Suggested changes? Not sure, but a cooldown nerf and a green marker flare would be nice. Alternatively, swap it for a normal reacon plane.

Brit arty commander gets the sector flares which also can't be countered or have makers but it at least has the severe limit that you can't control where it goes, it only reveals front line sectors at random (some get flared, some do not) so it usually can't be used to reveal rear line fixed arty and has a long cool down.

Yeah I kinda agree here

Many abilities including OKW arty flares (and many call-in units) should have their cool-down time looked at.

I don't think the OKW flares are as powerful as people make them out to be. 60 munitions isn't cheap and you can't spam them forever, especially not since OKW is pretty munitions heavy to start with. It's like most other recon: it's annoying but you can reposition your units accordingly or keep them moving.

Its ability in team games to spot for other teammates' off-maps is unfortunate, but then against most recon can do that. Even planes will usually be able to spot whatever someone wishes to off-map before being taken down.


I could get behind a better visual clue though, like a green marker or the flares appearing sooner.

I don't think the OKW flares are as powerful as people make them out to be. 60 munitions isn't cheap and you can't spam them forever, especially not since OKW is pretty munitions heavy to start with. It's like most other recon: it's annoying but you can reposition your units accordingly or keep them moving.

Its ability in team games to spot for other teammates' off-maps is unfortunate, but then against most recon can do that. Even planes will usually be able to spot whatever someone wishes to off-map before being taken down.


I could get behind a better visual clue though, like a green marker or the flares appearing sooner.

Yeah, OKW drop flare and another use Zeroing Artillery over British emplacement. No counter, no avoidance. What could go wrong?

Yeah, OKW drop flare and another use Zeroing Artillery over British emplacement. No counter, no avoidance. What could go wrong?

So the enemy spends 360 munitions to take down an emplacement. I think that's a fair trade.