Elite Troops 2018

Is the elite troops doctrine still worth using? Especially the tiger ace.

It's certainly still usable, especially in larger game modes.

Stun grenades deal way less damage but can still practically win you an engagement since it only has to hit one model to stun an entire squad. Definitely still a consideration for picking this doctrine.

G43s are definitely a handy and cheaper option instead of the MG42 on some maps. These along with the stun grenades can help you be more aggressive.

Smoke is always useful. It especially helps light vehicles stay alive after a risky push.

Stormtroopers are somewhat sub-par. In this doctrine they get G43s and the Panzerschreck's ability is pretty useful. Probably not why you would want to pick this doctrine.

The Tiger Ace is a difficult one to use. You burn a lot of resources to call it in and keep it. You'd pretty much just want to use it to try to win as fast as possible since it's already vet 3 and you should be near maxing your army at that CP. I'd say overall it's worth using but you should probably not rely on it for too long because of how bad your economy would be in the long run.

It's certainly still usable, especially in larger game modes.

Stun grenades deal way less damage but can still practically win you an engagement since it only has to hit one model to stun an entire squad. Definitely still a consideration for picking this doctrine.

G43s are definitely a handy and cheaper option instead of the MG42 on some maps. These along with the stun grenades can help you be more aggressive.

Smoke is always useful. It especially helps light vehicles stay alive after a risky push.

Stormtroopers are somewhat sub-par. In this doctrine they get G43s and the Panzerschreck's ability is pretty useful. Probably not why you would want to pick this doctrine.

The Tiger Ace is a difficult one to use. You burn a lot of resources to call it in and keep it. You'd pretty much just want to use it to try to win as fast as possible since it's already vet 3 and you should be near maxing your army at that CP. I'd say overall it's worth using but you should probably not rely on it for too long because of how bad your economy would be in the long run.

I can confirm that the Ace is something you want to get to literally end the match in 2 minutes or you will be badly out produced.

To be honest I'd rather it was put at like 20cp and they removed the resource penalty, and put a huge timer of like 2 minutes or something on it so you can't call it that fast back in instead of never.

I mean, Wittman wasn't the only Panzer Ace Germany had.

I'd rather see the Tiger Ace and all of its balance problems replaced by a King Tiger.

I'd rather see the Tiger Ace and all of its balance problems replaced by a King Tiger.

You know now that you mention it and I think about it that's probably the reason why Relic did the same thing with the Tiger Ace in the first game as well.

Problem is that then the Wehrmacht isn't a 1943 based Army anymore, that is, it doesn't really fit in with their theme/time period.

Ostheer rather resembles the entire Russian war and already uses lots of late war things like the Sturmpanzer IV, Pak 43, Elefant, Panther G, StG 44s and Ju 87G which are all 1943+.

Ostheer rather resembles the entire Russian war and already uses lots of late war things like the Sturmpanzer IV, Pak 43, Elefant, Panther G, StG 44s and Ju 87G which are all 1943+.

All of these were available in late 1943 and early 1944 when EFA are roughly set. With exception of panther G of course, but the model is so inaccurate that you can't even reliably say if it is the G version. Might as well be some earlier one.

Tiger IIs were deployed on the Eastern Front in September 1944, so it still fits the Ostheer perfectly fine. It isn't more of a stretch than giving the Brits the Comet or OKW the MG-34.

Tiger IIs were deployed on the Eastern Front in September 1944, so it still fits the Ostheer perfectly fine. It isn't more of a stretch than giving the Brits the Comet or OKW the MG-34.

I agree with you, for the most part, however still the WFA are centered largely around the Battle of the Bulge, while the Brits are based around their Rhine crossing Army in 1945, which perhaps makes sense with the lack of the 25 pounder emplacements and their less reliance on emplacements to some extent.

I actually went as far as to have the idea of replacing the Wehrmacht base buildings with the OKW HQ trucks since it made more sense, the Ostheer part of the Wehrmacht was lightly armed and armored during Operation Barbarossa and highly mobile, as well as well trained and equipped, supplied and had a lot of available manpower.

To that end I'm not going to go into much detail but this is how the Ostheer would look like in my mod if I made it:

HQ truck (T0)

Combat Pioneers - 5 man squad armed with MP40s, could be upgraded to flammwerfer 35s and Panzerbusche 39s exclusively. Could also plant demo charges to destroy cover and so forth, build sandbags, Tank Traps and Bunkers of course. Can't repair vehicles, only structures.

Grenadiers - 5 man squad using the AT crew models armed with K98k-s, could be upgraded to MP40s or an MG34, access to rifle grenades at first, gets replaced by regular Stick grenades when upgraded, can stack sandbags.

Kubelwagen - comes unarmed and can cap, can be upgraded to an MG34 but loses the ability to cap then.

The HQ could also be upgraded with medics.

Infantry Support HQ truck (T1)

MG34, GrW 34 and Pak 36(renamed M42, but can garrison due to small size, was on the fence about giving it a retreat like the raketen).

Mechanized Panzer HQ truck (T2)

Panzergrenadiers - 5 man squad armed with Kar 98k-s same as the regular grens, could be upgraded to Mkb 42s (renamed StG-s) or an MG34 again like the Grens and also perhaps to Panzerbusche 39s? Can only repair vehicles and throw bundled grenades.

251 Halftrack - Open Topped, when infantry are inside the MG34s on it are manned, can be upgraded to a mobile ambulance (can be setup to deploy medics and reinforce infantry, perhaps could even have a forward retreat point?), mobile repair shop (same as the ambulance but instead of medics it deploys repair pioneers) double flammwerfer 35s on each side and doctrinally can be upgraded to the Walking stuka and perhaps others.

250 Halftrack - comes unarmed, can be upgraded with an MG34 or a GrW 34 mortar. It can also carry a single squad, serves more as a light and faster support HT compared to the 251. It would be nice if we could put a Panzerbusche 39 on it but I sadly think it's impossible atm due to no model editing.

Panzer support HQ truck - (T3)

StuG III E - Short barrel StuG, nuff said.

Panzer IV F1 - Short barrel Panzer IV, found in Theater of War missions, same as the StuG. Would be nice if we had a Panzer III as well...

Schwerer Panzer production upgrade - (serves as a pseudo T4)

Upgrades both the StuG and Panzer IV to their long barrel versions, allows the calling in of a Command Panzer IV, said Command Panzer IV can be upgraded to a long barrel version but has a lower rate of fire and accuracy due to additional radios. Also unlocks the Panther.

Bunkers can only be upgraded to MG34s, that means that healing will come from the HQ or mobile ambulance HTs, repairs are divided by Combat Pioneers and Panzergrenadiers, repair pioneers can repair both buildings and vehicles in their immediate vicinity. I am also still wondering where to put a forward retreat point, in the infantry support HQ or in the ambulance.

This redesign of the Army is meant to replicate the early to mid war Ostheer, like I said, mobile, well trained and equipped (not best) and having a lot of manpower available to them, that's the reason why for the 5 man squads.

It also has an interesting dynamic where you could go pure infantry without the need of tanks so it's entirely up to the player and how the match goes.

As far as the OKW goes, they would get the wooden base structures, heavier and later war stuff like the MG42s, Pak 40s, Panzerschrecks, Stg-s (proper assault rigles compared to the Mkb 42s) side skirted Panzer IVs, Jagdpanzer IVs, Panthers by default, concrete bunkers, dragon teeth tank traps, Pak 43s, King and Jagdtigers and so forth.

Of course the Ostheer would also have access to heavier stuff like the Tiger, Pak 43s and Elefants, MG42s, Pak 40s and Panzerschrecks but doctrinally.

The OKW would however be a slower to develop and heavier more defensive Army like the CoH Wehrmacht than the current early game rush Axis force they are right now, they would also have more 4 man squads because of the lack of firepower and more experience.

So it would basically be a trade off between the 2 German Armies in my mind, the Ostheer becomes this early to mid war rush Army that is mobile and light and the other things like I said while the OKW becomes this slow and "fragile" behemoth that has access to less manpower and resources but more experience and better weaponry.

So to get back to the topic, I would cut Ostheer to 1943 in terms of tech and the OKW would take off from there until the end of the war basically.

Still tho, I mean your suggestion is nice and all but I'm gonna go with the "unique" crowd this time (god forbid) and say that the KT just simply doesn't fit with the Ostheer's time frame so to speak.

And yes the Soviets would be redesigned as well like the Ostheer in an early defensive Army again focusing on the early to mid war period and I guess most of their stuff would not be weird since they didn't really "tech up" during the war compared to everyone else so to speak, no rocket propelled anti-tank weaponry, no Halftracks of their own and so forth.

At this point I think they should ditch the Tiger Ace's fancy income-slaughtering mechanic and just price it at its value.

I just want to echo what Sander and A.Soldeir said. They replaced that godawful T.A in COH1 with the KT.

I'd like the same here in addition to loosing the 'redonkulous' economy penalty and bump the call in cost and CP amount.

PS. Who remembers the OP days of troop training with this commander loooool.

I'm supporting the idea of removing Tiger Ace and replacing it with King Tiger. If you wanna make it special add maybe a buffed version of panzer commander upgrade (this commander lacks of barrage abillity - this would give one).

Add a smoke nades to the stun nade ability for a stormtroopers and panzergranadiers.

That would become more interesting and see how it goes from there

My suggestion for tiger ACE would be a vehicle that scale with time.

It start as a Stug -E with some abilities (barrage?) and better defensive stats. Once it reaches certain vet (vet 2) can be refitted for a Stug -G, then again at certain vet it can be refitted for a Tiger.

Troop training could also be re-introduced and allowing an extra vet level for unit so the can gain veterancy 4.

Maybe it's due to my low Wehr rank but I see this as the strongest Wehr commander in many cases. The stun grenades and G43s give a huge boost to Wehr early game. Panzer Tactician has long been just about the best mid-game ability there is, as it basically allows you to build a bunch of mediums and YOLO them around, pop smoke at 20% remaining HP, and have an 80% chance of escaping (unless your opponent gets lucky with attack ground). Then to top it all off, you can rely on Wehr's strong defensive play until 17 CP and call in the Ace to finish things off.

I don't know if I see a strong argument for redesigning or replacing the Tiger Ace, it's already an interesting mechanic, and it puts you in the position where calling it in and NOT winning in the next few minutes will basically lose you the game - which by that stage, will be 100% deserved.

The commander sucks for what it meant form

only 1 tiger ace, when people can spam other heavy tanks.