Opinion on new IS-2?

Yeah, forget using infantry against IS-2. Losing vet 3 squads to single shots is not amusing. It is a magnificent support tank, but you need some SU-85's and infantry to use it effectively. The downside is that using both IS-2 and SU-85's takes a massive amount of fuel.

If IS-2´s AT capabilities get buffed further then Panther´s AI has to be buffed too. Two SU-85 shut down any Tiger. Why shouldn´t a Panther somewhat counter the IS-2? Keep in mind that the Panther only wins with 5% health left. I also saw Panthers losing to IS-2s because the crew was shocked.

Panzer IV and PaK constantly bounce now. The Panther is the only non doctrine vehicle that can handle the IS-2 - and that not even reliably.

If IS-2´s AT capabilities get buffed further then Panther´s AI has to be buffed too. Two SU-85 shut down any Tiger. Why shouldn´t a Panther somewhat counter the IS-2? Keep in mind that the Panther only wins with 5% health left. I also saw Panthers losing to IS-2s because the crew was shocked.

Panzer IV and PaK constantly bounce now. The Panther is the only non doctrine vehicle that can handle the IS-2 - and that not even reliably.

It's a heavy tank. You can deal with it with a Panther and some support but hard counter for it are Tiger and Elephant and Pak43 (?).

IS-2 were design to hunt Tigers and I think Relic is trying to mimic this in the game. This could be the reason for recent Tiger nerf.
Because of the cost and capability of IS-2 you should always compere it to a Tiger (I'm repeating myself here, sorry)
Complaining that you can't deal with them with Panthers is like complaining that you can't deal with a PzV (Panther) using T-34/76 (without ramming the Panther, to be accurate)

To cut the long story short:

IS-2 = Panther - wrong.
IS-2 = PzVI Tiger - correct

IS-2 were design to hunt Tigers and I think Relic is trying to mimic this in the game. This could be the reason for recent Tiger nerf.

IS-2s were designed as breakthrough tanks. Their large gun was meant to bust bunkers and emplacements. With that rate of fire it couldn´t fight tanks that well. The trajectory wasn´t flat either. It was very hard to aim at long distances. If we go by design: The Panther was designed to counter tanks, the IS-2 wasn´t.

Complaining that you can't deal with them with Panthers is like complaining that you can't deal with a PzV (Panther) using T-34/76.

That´s a huge exaggeration. T-34/76 couldn´t go through the Panthers frontal armor. The Panther however could go through the IS-2s frontal armor. Panther is an anti tank-vehicle. So is the SU-85. Su-85 can give Tigers a serious beating, so Panther should give the IS-2 a serious beating.

Sounds like you are proposing that the Soviet heavy tank shouldn´t be countered by non doctrinal stuff (Panther), yet the German heavy tank should be countered by Soviet non-doctrinal stuff (Su-85).

Why would I build a Panther? It sucks versus infantry. It can basically only counter T-34s and somewhat SU-85s. Yet a Panzer IV can do the job better for cost. What remains is that the Panther can somewhat fight versus IS-2s. Take that away and German T4 is a joke.

It's a heavy tank. You can deal with it with a Panther and some support but hard counter for it are Tiger and Elephant and Pak43 (?).

IS-2 were design to hunt Tigers and I think Relic is trying to mimic this in the game. This could be the reason for recent Tiger nerf.
Because of the cost and capability of IS-2 you should always compere it to a Tiger (I'm repeating myself here, sorry)
Complaining that you can't deal with them with Panthers is like complaining that you can't deal with a PzV (Panther) using T-34/76 (without ramming the Panther, to be accurate)

To cut the long story short:

IS-2 = Panther - wrong.
IS-2 = PzVI Tiger - correct

its role in real life is irrelavent. look at ostwinds being an anti infantry tank. the is2 is not meant to fight tigers currently. this is obvious if you look at its stats. the tank thats most similar to it is the brummbar, not the tiger. if relic changes them to be AT, maybe it should be able to kill a tiger. currently its a very powerful AI tank with decent AT capabilities.

ugbear is just obsessed with the 40 mp and 40 fuel difference in cost. hes still never answered my question though. if an is2 should beat a tiger just because its a heavy tank that costs more, why does a brummbar lose to an su85? i think hes avoiding answering this question because he knows his argument is flawed. different tanks have different roles. price doesnt determine what tank wins in a fight.

[...]That´s a huge exaggeration. T-34/76 couldn´t go through the Panthers frontal armor. The Panther however could go through the IS-2s frontal armor. Panther is an anti tank-vehicle. So is the SU-85. Su-85 can give Tigers a serious beating, so Panther should give the IS-2 a serious beating.

Sounds like you are proposing that the Soviet heavy tank shouldn´t be countered by non doctrinal stuff (Panther), yet the German heavy tank should be countered by Soviet non-doctrinal stuff (Su-85).

Why would I build a Panther? It sucks versus infantry. It can basically only counter T-34s and somewhat SU-85s. Yet a Panzer IV can do the job better for cost. What remains is that the Panther can somewhat fight versus IS-2s. Take that away and German T4 is a joke.

But Panther can give IS-2 a serious beating so can SU-85 give serious beating to Tiger.
What I'm trying to say is that in CoH2 IS-2 is in the same "vehicle class" as Tiger. If you want to compare this tank to any other German tank compare it with Tiger, not Panther. One is a bit better in AI role, the other against armour but that's irrelevant. Both are durable, slow-ish heavy hitters.

And what's with German players hating Panthers so much? Panthers crap against infantry? I mean they not Ostwind or Brumbar efficiency but I still wouldn't charge a Panther with any infantry squad especially that AT nades usually tickles them.

I like the IS2, but it is yet another Soviet tank that excels against infantry and is decent against tanks. Would be cooler if they switch the roles of tiger and IS2.

during an almost won game, just rushed 2 panthers with 2 IS2 with a conscript and a shock. both of my IS2 got down to >10% and the panthers to ~ 50% when i fell back. then i realized IS2 is a heavy support tank. nothing really wrong with that though.

its actually really funny to see osteer starting an assault, sees IS2 with support, takes the first shot into the face, get scared and run away.

the way i see heavy tanks are:
tiger - hunter
elephant - sniper
IS2/ISU152 - uber support AI/AT

obviously soviet heavy tanks, considering their speed, reload speed and turret rotation speed, they are not supposed to spearhead into a battlezone.

but they are a very potent rounded support.

I don't need to pay 240 fuel for something that can one shot infantry but gets killed by most tanks. I have infantry for killing infantry.

Some people make arguments that the Panther has no AI, but what soviet infantry unit can actually do more than damage the engine?

So, the IS-2 costs 240 fuel, and for that 240 fuel I can lose to one of the most common types of tanks in the lategame, BUT I can destroy a couple squads of infantry and not get my engine damaged as a trade-off..

Seems fair. Yep.


Yeah i'll just get a KV-8 for more than half the price..

They are even in the same doctrine!

Yeah, but really, I would always much rather get a Panther. They can scare infantry away well, and their MG turret does decent AI.

But with the Panther, I can also 1v1 any soviet tank and win. ISU-152, IS-2, SU-85..

I can 1v1 all that shit and win, and in the case that there are support and massed AT weapons waiting for my Panther? Well I'll just use my amazing mobility to get out. I can even use rocket blitzkrieg mode with a damaged engine! So balanced!

I don't need to pay 240 fuel for something that can one shot infantry but gets killed by most tanks. I have infantry for killing infantry.

Some people make arguments that the Panther has no AI, but what soviet infantry unit can actually do more than damage the engine?

So, the IS-2 costs 240 fuel, and for that 240 fuel I can lose to one of the most common types of tanks in the lategame, BUT I can destroy a couple squads of infantry and not get my engine damaged as a trade-off..

Seems fair. Yep.


Yeah i'll just get a KV-8 for more than half the price..

They are even in the same doctrine!

Yeah, but really, I would always much rather get a Panther. They can scare infantry away well, and their MG turret does decent AI.

But with the Panther, I can also 1v1 any soviet tank and win. ISU-152, IS-2, SU-85..

I can 1v1 all that shit and win, and in the case that there are support and massed AT weapons waiting for my Panther? Well I'll just use my amazing mobility to get out. I can even use rocket blitzkrieg mode with a damaged engine! So balanced!

well feel free to get kv8s. not sure how that will help your AT situation, but go right ahead. if you lose your is2 after killing a couple squads of infantry youre being too aggresive. let the germans come to you or use it when you push your whole army forward. the is2 will soak up a lot of hits while your zis/su85 get to take free shots at the enemy armor.

honestly, its amazing soviets can ever win a game. all they want to do is 1v1 with panthers. who cares that guards can stop a panther from moving and shooting? they just want pgrens. and who cares that is2 and isu152 are pretty much a brummbar on steroids? they just want tigers.

why are you guys playing soviets if you want them to function just like germans?

I don't need to pay 240 fuel for something that can one shot infantry but gets killed by most tanks. I have infantry for killing infantry.

Some people make arguments that the Panther has no AI, but what soviet infantry unit can actually do more than damage the engine?

So, the IS-2 costs 240 fuel, and for that 240 fuel I can lose to one of the most common types of tanks in the lategame, BUT I can destroy a couple squads of infantry and not get my engine damaged as a trade-off..

Seems fair. Yep.


Yeah i'll just get a KV-8 for more than half the price..

They are even in the same doctrine!

Yeah, but really, I would always much rather get a Panther. They can scare infantry away well, and their MG turret does decent AI.

But with the Panther, I can also 1v1 any soviet tank and win. ISU-152, IS-2, SU-85..

I can 1v1 all that shit and win, and in the case that there are support and massed AT weapons waiting for my Panther? Well I'll just use my amazing mobility to get out. I can even use rocket blitzkrieg mode with a damaged engine! So balanced!

Why do you insist on making it seem that the is-2 is helpless against tanks? It want 1v1 a tiger and will evenly trade vs a panther, however it is great with support. It still has 170 pen, 240 damage, 325 armor and 960 hp. It dies not specialise in fighting tanks but can do so competently while annihilating all infantry support. Combine is-2 with zis or su85 and you have a very effective force....

Whenever you tell me to combine it with AT guns or SU85s it just makes it seem like an overpriced KV-8

Whenever you tell me to combine it with AT guns or SU85s it just makes it seem like an overpriced KV-8

So you equate acceptable or even good at capability with almost none at all? Again do you not realize it's 170 pen and 240 damage along with 325 armor?

So you equate acceptable or even good at capability with almost none at all? Again do you not realize it's 170 pen and 240 damage along with 325 armor?

I agree that it is great and all, but i'd rather have some infantry and SU-85(s) for 240 fuel and 720 MP

too accurate with too large an AOE for a main battle tank. will 1-2 shot all german squads even on the move but still has enough fire power to 3-4 shot german p4s without many missed shots.

The IS2 as a unit is fine now imo, but the cost isn't. At first I liked the idea of paying fuel for doctrinal tanks, but in implementation it just means you are forced to skip mid game armor completely or get your end game tank much later than expected. Manpower only please, that system worked fine in vcoh for every tank except PE Panthers.

The IS2 as a unit is fine now imo, but the cost isn't. At first I liked the idea of paying fuel for doctrinal tanks, but in implementation it just means you are forced to skip mid game armor completely or get your end game tank much later than expected. Manpower only please, that system worked fine in vcoh for every tank except PE Panthers.

LOL do you know how much a IS2 will cost if they remove the fuel requirement? even they just move　FU requirement to MP 1:1 it will cost 1000MP and usually relic will consider fuel is more expansive than MP, so you prob looking at least 1000+ MP for a single tank! good luck with that if it happens

LOL do you know how much a IS2 will cost if they remove the fuel requirement? even they just move　FU requirement to MP 1:1 it will cost 1000MP and usually relic will consider fuel is more expansive than MP, so you prob looking at least 1000+ MP for a single tank! good luck with that if it happens

Then Tiger will also cost 1000MP, good luck with that

Then Tiger will also cost 1000MP, good luck with that

i prefer FU stay for my doctrinal tanks, those you who want it lift have it your way..also i don't use tigers, if elefant change to over 1000mp then i will just use panther then

Say wait, wasn't the IS-2's scatter drastically reduced 2-3 patches ago?

It was part of a livestream too. I'd be willing to see the scatter increased by a small amount, should alleviate that problem.

But remember, for all the problems German players keep whining about 1-2 shotting infantry, Soviet players have had to deal with 2-3 shotting our tanks for a while now. German tanks have a lot of escapes, such as smoke launchers, and even the much more reliable panzerfaust.

Soviet tank survivabiliy, especially in the late game where they matter the most, is lacking against many sources from equal tiers, and not just from one doctrinal unit that is supposed to be powerful.