conscript veterancy and their lack of weapon upgrade

The conscript's lack of a tech tree upgrade have been a constant issue since release.

So far the "solution" have been to give the squad more and more powerful veterancy, but at this point I have to say that it's not really work.

as comparison:

Conscript

vet1
.92 incoming accuracy

vet2
1.4 weapon accuracy
.707 incoming accuracy (.65 total bonus)

vet3
.8 weapon cooldown (fire more often)
1.1 weapon accuracy (1.54 total )


grenadier

vet2
1.4 weapon accuracy

vet3
.8 weapon cooldown (fire more often)
.77 incoming accuracy

The conscript's high veterancy is problematic. While it's not powerful enough to compensate for their relatively weak mosin, any lmg42 (or vicker k... ) on the conscript basically become a death ray.

I believe a better solution would be to give the conscript weapon upgrade as their vet 1 bonus. This would remove the need for the insane bonus while providing them with a noticeable firepower increase.

What should the weapon be then? while the most obvious answer would be the dp-28 or ppsh.

I believe the best answer would actually be the Tommies' old scope rifle. the british tommies used to be given two scoped lee enfield as their vet 3. Those scoped lee enfield were actually more than cosmetic and were a straight upgrade from the normal lee enfield.

While those scope rifle were ultimately redundant on the tommies due to the availability of the bren gun, "scoped mosin"/"elite mosin" would provide the conscript with the firepower it needs. One could be given at vet 1 and another at vet 3.

Why not give them SVT? Or some sort of weapon pack - 1 ppsh + 2 SVT. It will be unique (not like with PPSH cons and penals SVT squad). This will give them little close range dps boost and better overall dps.

Where did you find these veterancy stats?

The current implementation of Weapons that one can pick is complicated with different solution for different weapons and problematic.

A unified solution should be implemented where these weapons performed according to the "type" of unit that pick them up with "auxiliary" troops using a lesser version, "mainline" the "normal" version and elite a better version.

The current implementation of Weapons that one can pick is complicated with different solution for different weapons and problematic.

A unified solution should be implemented where these weapons performed according to the "type" of unit that pick them up with "auxiliary" troops using a lesser version, "mainline" the "normal" version and elite a better version.

Except, there is no such thing as type of squad in coh2. There was in coh1 though and it was widely used in accurancy tables. In coh2, the squads differ only with there stats, so you can say that squads with less recieved accurancy are more "elite", but you can't label them as "elite".

Except, there is no such thing as type of squad in coh2. There was in coh1 though and it was widely used in accurancy tables. In coh2, the squads differ only with there stats, so you can say that squads with less recieved accurancy are more "elite", but you can't label them as "elite".

Yet some weapon are different depending on who is using it.

Bren on Commandos is for an "elite" unit, while tommies get another versions and Ro.E. used to get a third version.

Yet some weapon are different depending on who is using it.

Bren on Commandos is for an "elite" unit, while tommies get another versions and Ro.E. used to get a third version.

Yeah, there are. But you have to change it for every unit. That is why it is such a mess.

Except, there is no such thing as type of squad in coh2. There was in coh1 though and it was widely used in accurancy tables. In coh2, the squads differ only with there stats, so you can say that squads with less recieved accurancy are more "elite", but you can't label them as "elite".

Elite is a thing, it just doesn't do much. IIRC all it allows them to do is fire lmgs on the move. (Obers, commandos, paratroopers? I think those are the only ones.)

Elite is a thing, it just doesn't do much. IIRC all it allows them to do is fire lmgs on the move. (Obers, commandos, paratroopers? I think those are the only ones.)

It is something in between as far as I know. It is just a toggle to fire lmg on the move, that some people call elite. But there are plenty of definitions of "elite" in the game. For example a few years ago people called elite the squads that had body armour.

Yeah, there are. But you have to change it for every unit. That is why it is such a mess.

No you do not. You can simply have modifiers on squads.

As I have explained the current system is complicated and inefficient with a number of different solutions on for the same problem, and that makes it a mess. It needs fixing.


(I am using the terms auxiliary mainline and elite as descriptive not as existing in game categories, which units is what is a balance issue. A similar solution should be implemented for build and reinforcement times)

paratroop Able fire on move but M1919 Moving acc is 0.25 is low

Long story short:

Grens and volks get long range weapons as well as grens getting upgraded longrange.


Rifles/Cons/penals (stock/core inf) dont get long range but get compensated with more men......But that means you'll lose 1 man on approach to be combat effective, 2 after you get into cover less you get flamenaded or riflenaded.


The problem is that these units lack the long range firepower (without m1919 but even that is trash now) and or lack fair compensation for having to get in close.


IMO either a cost reduction to reinforce or simply making them harder to hit (slight adjustment, nothing large) might make them easier to close the distance to be combat effective meaning we can leave vet alone.

Elite is a thing, it just doesn't do much. IIRC all it allows them to do is fire lmgs on the move. (Obers, commandos, paratroopers? I think those are the only ones.)

sturmpioneers do as well believe it or not. Also maybe Pgrens but I don't remember.

I would assume Air landing officer do it as well.

Long story short:

Grens and volks get long range weapons as well as grens getting upgraded longrange.


Rifles/Cons/penals (stock/core inf) dont get long range but get compensated with more men......But that means you'll lose 1 man on approach to be combat effective, 2 after you get into cover less you get flamenaded or riflenaded.


The problem is that these units lack the long range firepower (without m1919 but even that is trash now) and or lack fair compensation for having to get in close.


IMO either a cost reduction to reinforce or simply making them harder to hit (slight adjustment, nothing large) might make them easier to close the distance to be combat effective meaning we can leave vet alone.

Whether the compensation is "fair" depends on the map and the type of engagements it leads to. I noticed you tried to sneak in Rifles and Penals into the conversation about Cons - as if Rifles needed any help. Penals also chew up Volks, fyi. The main problem with USF is the teching structure and AT access - and buffing Riflemen would be the incorrect way to fix that.

The current implementation of Weapons that one can pick is complicated with different solution for different weapons and problematic.

A unified solution should be implemented where these weapons performed according to the "type" of unit that pick them up with "auxiliary" troops using a lesser version, "mainline" the "normal" version and elite a better version.

Why use "versions" when you could just add modifiers? Why design a whole new gun for every gun for every squad or class of troop when you could just add gun default stats and modifiers to the squad? A picked up mg42 on cons is set to be say 0.5 the stats where on rifles it's 0.75 for example. Same gun but the quality of the troop defines the ability with the gun
Something like Tommy's get bren stats, snappers get modified to 0.9 commandos 1.1 as nice round numbers instead 3 kinds of bren. This would mean a Shrek is better on commandos or a ptrs or anything and it can be assuned

Elite is a thing, it just doesn't do much. IIRC all it allows them to do is fire lmgs on the move. (Obers, commandos, paratroopers? I think those are the only ones.)

It is something in between as far as I know. It is just a toggle to fire lmg on the move, that some people call elite. But there are plenty of definitions of "elite" in the game. For example a few years ago people called elite the squads that had body armour.

those elite troops uses a different weapon file for their upgrade. Paratrooper m1919a6 is not the same m191916 the rifleman pick u. (although the actual difference is just the fire on move capability, otherwise they are clone of each other)

On that note, the m1 carbine used by the paratrooper and ranger is a different weapon file then the m1 carbine used by the rear echelon.

The k98k used by the ober is also different from the k98k on the volks.

The mosin used by the guard is also different from the mosin on the conscript

The current implementation of Weapons that one can pick is complicated with different solution for different weapons and problematic.

A unified solution should be implemented where these weapons performed according to the "type" of unit that pick them up with "auxiliary" troops using a lesser version, "mainline" the "normal" version and elite a better version.

really, the problem is the conscript not having enough firepower by "default" but become ridiculous if they managed to salvage a lmg42. Yet the fixture everyone seems to be having is on conscript being too powerful

No you do not. You can simply have modifiers on squads.

As I have explained the current system is complicated and inefficient with a number of different solutions on for the same problem, and that makes it a mess. It needs fixing.


(I am using the terms auxiliary mainline and elite as descriptive not as existing in game categories, which units is what is a balance issue. A similar solution should be implemented for build and reinforcement times)

Why use "versions" when you could just add modifiers? Why design a whole new gun for every gun for every squad or class of troop when you could just add gun default stats and modifiers to the squad? A picked up mg42 on cons is set to be say 0.5 the stats where on rifles it's 0.75 for example. Same gun but the quality of the troop defines the ability with the gun
Something like Tommy's get bren stats, snappers get modified to 0.9 commandos 1.1 as nice round numbers instead 3 kinds of bren. This would mean a Shrek is better on commandos or a ptrs or anything and it can be assuned

because you run into the problem of being unable to define or fine tune individual weapons without unintentionally affecting other weapon/squad. Just one problem is the fact The accuracy modifier affect the weapon's state regardless of range.

the fact of the matter is the different weapon system is the norm. You want to change every weapon and squad in existence?


lastly, this doesn't really address the issue of conscript lacking tech tree upgrade. The original issue is how they have insane veterancy in an attempt to compensate for their lack of upgrade, but the thing break if they managed to get a lmg42. All these "solution" will just make sure the conscript will keep having scaling problem into the late game.

Yeah, there are. But you have to change it for every unit. That is why it is such a mess.

or simply create a weak base weapon but when given to elite they get the elite one so u change like 2 unit as the other aleready have this (ober,commando,etc)

Perhaps a (/two) scoped Mosin or DP28 upgrade tied to the T3 or T4 structure? I think a vet requirement would make them scale too early. They seem to be fine early game against Volks and Grens and only really start to struggle once mass weapon upgrades or elite infantry hit the field, which is usually around Soviet T3 or T4.

those elite troops uses a different weapon file for their upgrade. Paratrooper m1919a6 is not the same m191916 the rifleman pick u. (although the actual difference is just the fire on move capability, otherwise they are clone of each other)

It still works if they pick up other dropped lmgs. Commandos will fire the ober lmg34 on the move, normal troops will not.