Langreskaya North Soviet Start

Pretty self-explanatory topic, really. I'm finding playing on this map from this start very problematic, especially in the winter version. It seems like snipers are the only really plausible opening, since if you don't get them, an MG will get onto your cut-off and then sit on it but from there, even if you keep killing squads, get the Halftrack and Scout Car that'll usually come up, you just won't have any opportunity to get the field presence for fuel or to harass the very well-defended German cutoff. At which point, always Ostwind, which more or less ends any field presence you might have. Throw in a strafing run if the German is a dick going for easymode.

Also, an MG in the house between the fuel and munitions prevents all left hand side harassment on its own.

I've had a German player lose a ton of squads, his first Ostwind and his first P-IV to guards and still win just because there wasn't any way to get field presence back while that was happening.

I've had a couple of wins through snipers -> SU-85 on this map but only against Ostheer players who don't really know what they're doing.

So, is anyone having success with a different approach (or the same approach) against half-decent Ostheer players on this map. I'm thinking a LHS start might just be a generally better idea, since the cut-off is harder to put in place. I sort of think M3+Flamer might be advisable as well but I'm not sure if it'd just get hard countered as soon as it gets out.

I have run into this problem as well and realized that going West/left hand side, is your ONLY option to save your economy.

However, now your enemy is forcing you over there.

I've tried using 120mm mortars but that 1CP takes too long to get and you usually lose by then. I do have a replay against IronRoman where he built BUNKERS, and i try to build 2 120mm mortars. I got frustrated by the fact that i lost based on me NOT going T1 and i felt i needed to 'watch the middle' and 'not let bunkers be built', since he wasn't getting mg42 squads. I guess PENAL SQUADS(GASP!) would have been a good bet against BUNKERS for satchel charges.

I do feel T1 is the way to push them off but, you NEED to be fast on your T2 to stop the Ostwind and/or p4; as he'll have 1 (most likely 2) fuel guaranteed. So, getting the flamethrower+m3 & a Sniper as quick as you can, with 3x conscripts trying to slow him down with molotov is, IMO, your best bet.

I have tried to 'Ignore the middle' but that loses quickly because as soon as you retreat a squad, they run right in front of 2 MG42s stare-ing at your cut-off and mow down your <4manretreating squad.

Yeah, that mg in the house on the left is far more effective at denial of that whole corner of the map than it ever was in vcoh, especially in the winter incarnation, where there is impassable terrain and no gate to walk through or hop over at the furthest left point in order to reach the fuel.

Regardless of whatever other changes occur to early game balance, I hope that house is looked into.

T1 is the only consistant viable option on North Langres for Soviets. 3 conscripts, M3/flamer then get guard/sniper or sniper/guard is the only thing that works regulary.

With some clever wire you can actually get 3 conscripts, T2 maxim, mortar, guards to work. However it is not something you can always fall back upon.

You are correct though, dont commit to much to the east side in the early game as your cut off is completely exposed. I typically focus on locking down the west side as Russia whilst keeping pressure on the east ammo/fuel purely through the houses.

I struggle with this map aswell. It is balanced from the South for Soviets in my opinion but from North it is a joke that only one strat seems viable unless you have a really succesful early game. Once flanking is buffed you will notice a difference, but at the moment the game is a joke for me. On Langre the lack of shot block allow the MG42 simply to reign, compound that with the snow and you can really only win if you have +1 squad in a flanking engagement. Hard to do that though when your opponent is dedicated to that cut off of yours and commits everything

You can also try for a sniper start. Build T1 with your starting engy and get a sniper and m3 out first. Then get 3 conscripts and guards. Plant mines and use your m3 to lure scout cars into the mines.

This prevents the german player from getting your cutoff early game as you can snipe mg mans trying to camp your cutoff. Your sniper can do tonnes of damage if you keep it alive all game and it discourages further mg play.

It might not work as the metagame changes and german players get better at countering this but this is a good stop-gap measure you can try to get some wins on the north side of this map.

They really need to remove heavy snow from all winter maps. It serves no purpose except making Soviets angry.

heavy snow is fine if used sparingly. But spamming it all around the middle of winter langres is dumb on this already hard to flank map.

The comparison between the Semio and Langres games last night on SNF was a bit shocking: the first two games were probably the best coh2 stuff I've ever seen while the others were a bit meh...
Balance issues aside, Langres at the moment just feels like a big squared flatland battlefield with no flow whatsoever, I just wish it was scrapped for good instead of trying to fix it...with the worldbuilder around the corner there's no reason not to focus on something else.

Winter map is pretty much unplayable for the Soviets unless you go for t1(snipers)and SU-85s like everyone has said(but even that can be countered by your typical Ostheer player), the heavy snow and awful North cutoff make the map a nightmare. The summer version is better but still has the problem of the Northern cutoff and a pretty weird open area in the center of the map. I find though that 5 cons work great on that map as long as you're directing them to the sides of the map to cutoff the Ostheer player and grab other resources to force him off your cutoff.

I was about to saw the same, best way to fight being cut off is just to spread and cap. You might not have much coming in yourself, but you can counter cut off and make him have less. Then a simple mortar in your base can safely bleed anything on your cut off without time being too important.

Mortar defending your cut off is not reliable. It works sometimes but other times it does not. I rather have a sniper which can always punish my opponent for camping my open cut off and force him off immediately.

It is pretty easy to dodge Soviet mortar fire aswell and it is only the 1st or 2nd shot which is ever really a threat.

May be a stupid question, but why not guard the cut-off with an mg?

That and some wire to channel the marauding infantry in is what I do.

I think the problem with the cutoff isn't map related but because of faction design. You could break out of similar position in vcoh because when you closed in to short range you had the advantage, but that doesn't exist anymore except for SMG units. Now you approach them while taking more damage, and even when you do flank them you are only doing the same amount of damage that they are.

Here is what I do, works every well in winter situation.

My first engineer goes out not to cap but prepare for what is to come
Setting up barb wire near the center Vp in areas with higher mobility
Forcing your opponent to traverse threw deep snow to attack

B.O goes like this conscript 3x molotov 3x conscripts then t2
To get a mortar and a maximum how ever by this point I have stolen an mg 42
I use the commander with the forward HQ and AT gun build a few of thos and set up hq near center buildings. All of my initial conscripts are pushing left side away from ur northern cut off putting ur German foe on his back foot while you set up these defenses. And cap everthing. `Then move t3 too t34 gg

[[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g4PpRIlIVY&feature=youtube_gdata[/youtube]

On summer, a Maxim in the most Eastern building controls acces not onky access to your fuel, but also denies access to that villages central area.

Meanwhile concentrate the majority of your forces mid while making occasional forays deep into Osts far West when you win an engagement. Cutting a hole in the hedgerow lining the center helps avoid having to pass past the central V, and having to detour the long way sround the back withoutnhsving any oportunity to support mid.

Cut a hole in the hedgerow just north of the central VP. You can then flow West when you win a central engagement.

In contrary to most, I prefer North on this map. The east side village, open field to the south of it and horizontal placement of objectives makes it ideal as a North strongpoint, especially with SU85s and ZiS having open areas of fire across it.

The orimary problem with North, is having to circumvent the hedgerow that cuts the middle from west. Cut a hole in it, to allow your centralised units in mid to have more direct access to Osts West objectives.

As North Sov, one should never try to head directly for Osts cutoff past mid. All you need, is the VP. Better to cut a hole in the hedgerow and use that for more direct access for your forces to move ro the far west objectives on the far side of the SW village.

Armor assaults are rare along the East, and generally centrally placed AT can react fast enough to the far east.
Meanwhile defending East, send one unit through the cut in the hedgerow to cap the objectives there, and if lucky, to decap Osts fuel. Mine it for good measure too.

NEVER engage Ost in the village to the SW. That village is a losing point everytime for North. That hole in the hedgeline just south of the central VP is oh so tempting, but Ost will dlow right into your face there. Better just to Mine it, and return to controlling thecentral VP feom the haybails and hedge cover just north of it. At best, take one of the buildings in the village to the east to provide cover for your other unit to decap fuel behind it.

Inb4 all the haters telling me Im a tard.

I think he wants us to cut a hole in the hedgerow...