Sick/bored of MG42 -.-

But i repeat, please stop this accusation and get back on topic... i really have ZERO motivation to moderate this topic or even close it. So, please refuse to attack people, all of you.

This thread has been incredibly entertaining as of late, I'm going home from the office now, Thanks for that. loloolooolol

This whole thread was fun to read...reminds me of Sven Hassel

While Nullist is one of my least favourite people on this site, who rarely manages to attain anything to say that has value, and no doubt goes a long way to drive off other coh2.org rookies like me, he's indeed right about the problem being much larger than simply the MG42, but the effectiveness of small-arms in CoH2. While I remember CoH1 suffering badly from Hollywood Aim - it's even worse in CoH2, and makes the early game more about your build-order, than the intricacies of your unit control, and positioning. When the MG42s are used, at least.

Though, the MG42 is still far too powerful in my eyes, I don't think it'll need a huge adjustment, should we ever see small-arms effectiveness increased.

Another favourite suggestion of mine has been decreasing site-range of MGs, and requiring that they have a spotter. Not a perfect fix, but we're not looking at a -massive- imbalance, I think. Just enough of one that it's affecting the metagame negatively

I don't know if they can code it so that only HMGs take more damage from small arms fire. Even if they could, it would mean the Maxim would suffer more because it takes so much longer to pin anything. I'd be happy just to see the Maxim have its last damage nerf reverted (this was a stopgap measure imo dealing with Maxims being able to counter MG42s - the proper fix came later when pinned HMGs could no longer fire) and the MG42 have its arc reduced to the 120 degrees it had in vCoH. I think changing the MG42 arc and reverting back to 3 members might be a bit much. Going back to 3 members makes it more susceptible to snipers and retreat wipes again and while 222s are a much better purchase now, I'm not sure it would even out - unless there are also sniper changes inc we don't know about.

Just take out the MG-42's sniper range and make them more vulnerable to small amrs fire
Problem solved,next is...

*Small arms damage increase vs HMGs
*Reduced MG42 range/arc
*Reduced MG42 suppression (especially with the bulletin)
*Reduced HMG sight range (it should need a spotter at max range)


These are all changes that I'd love to see. Call it my very own HMG wish list. I don't really care about the 4 man squad thing. It's not really an issue in my book.

Something that is an issue and I don't think has been brought up is that MG42s easily beat Maxims when fighting each other head on. In fact, the Maxim can be set up first and the MG42 can deploy and still win the contest. This is due to the way suppression works with weapons teams, causing a suppressed (or pinned) weapons team to have a significantly reduced rate of fire. I know this is in place because Maxims previously hard countered MG42s which was obviously a messed up situation but the current one isn't all that much better. The Maxim is a much more limited weapon than the MG42 but supposedly it makes up for that by being more lethal in a relatively small area and yet it is completely outclassed when fighting an MG42 head on. That strikes me as rather odd.

It would be preferable that two HMGs would stalemate each other, or for the Maxim to win slowly but it really doesn't make sense for the MG42 to win in a straight up duel. Damage (Maxim) should trump Suppression (MG42). Again, think back to COH1 here. I'm not really sure how to fix it without causing other problems but I'd love to see a remedy. Perhaps increasing the Maxim's suppression or reducing the MG42s would do it but obviously anything they do in that regard would need to be carefully tested.

Also, the damage reduction buildings give to garrisoned units is more than a little OP at the moment which exasperates this whole HMG problem. If they'd bring those levels down I think there would be fewer aneurysm among COH2 players. Molotovs might not even need a buff.

I think suppression just lasts too long. A single mg42 can suppress a unit, turn and suppress another unit without immediate fear of the first unit getting up and attacking it.

If we want more options to counter Mg42 other that M3/flame/sniper something must be done. (Russian need more build options.)

Just reduce it's sighting range a bit or add a reaction time so conscripts have a chance to reverse course if they encounter one. I would also add time to its pack up time(+15%)so molotov would burn it a bit more. Do not do anything drastic plz.

We have to remember that the Mg42 was the best mg of the war and was mean to be use offensively. Russian advantage was that they had a higher ratio of mortar/men.

So the great Mg42 should not be nerfed much and must retain its flavor...
But other mean to counter it must be as good as M3, if we want to keep the fun high.

I think instant suppression is bit to much but more so molotov doing so little damage that it is gamble to even waste ammo and fuel for upgrade.
Quite often people wont even attempt to evacuate mg in burning building because they only lose 1-2 man, while killing 4-5 conscripts..
and once flanked by conscripts, mg can just walk across half the map to get support from other unit, taking almost no damage from conscripts.

Now, how to fix this? IDK

the only thing I suspect is that if suppression is nerfed and molotov buffed and/or conscripts effectiveness when firing at mg42 together, we might find it hard to contain Soviet early game again..

So I leave head banging to Devs

This is about 2v2:

In my opinion you need MG42 start because you cant do much against soviets rushing to "your" fuel and camp in the houses right there. You need to prevent that by getting an early MG42 covering the place, making soviets unable to get into buildings. Soviets have molotov. Germans have not. Riflegrenade against buildings is a waste of ammo (except rng God gives you an instant collapse).

That'll still be possible. It just wont pin anything on sight anymore

Reduce firing cone slightly, reduce sight range, scrap the OP bulletin, and make flanking more rewarding (received damage increased when flanked? is that possible?). There, balanced MG.

Also Molotovs being more consistent wouldn't hurt. Sometimes it barely tickles the target's health bar, other times it instantly roasts two guys. This unreliability really hurts flanking, since Conscript rifles take ages to decrew an MG42.

Decreasing the firing cone is pretty much the only thing that's needed, IMO.

Decreasing the firing cone is pretty much the only thing that's needed, IMO.

Not sure, the problem is not that they're unflankable, it's that flanking them is not rewarded enough. You can park Conscripts right behind them, and they can still pack up, redeploy, and start firing while losing 1-2 men. In VCOH, getting rifles behind MGs meant retreat or die,and it should be that way here too.

Decreasing the firing cone is pretty much the only thing that's needed, IMO.

that's one thing,next is instant pin,health that lasts 30 seconds when you shoot MG in the back before dying....aaah and the speed,decrease the speed and you won't see MG spam/capping anymore,that will encourage german players to build Grens/Pios/Snipers etc....
Oh and decrease the Maxim speed too...just to be even
In fact decrease speed will resolve their spam and that will make everyone happy...

What is really funny, is to steal an MG42 as SU and turn it on the german player.

If it's one of the players who only plays german, it messes up his game suddenly to have to deal with the big arc and insta-suppression. I can almost feel how baffled he is.

Anyway, nice to read, that Relic is looking into this.

Another one got away. Must micro harder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCLsiSmVbGI&feature=youtu.be

Another one got away. Must micro harder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCLsiSmVbGI&feature=youtu.be

Germans need a better MG, make it 360 degree instant pin so we can have a better chance early game. And if you're on it,increase squad size by 2 more.

wow... i digged through this whole thread and i have to say i am a little shocked right now.

shame on this community for behaving like in this thread!
and i don't know about moderation rules but, onkelsam, the direct personal bashing based on someones linked(!) stats should have made you or any moderator do something. it simply goes too far and isnt any help for this growing community at all.

what influence has play time or (fractual) player stats on someones opinion when he got a legid and clear point.

the increase to 4 men for Ostheer support weapons was made for a reason and won't be reverted. period.
underlining that and getting negated as a fanboi and freely torn apart by people who doesnt seem to know that and why this change was made in the first place ist just sad.

the only mg42 specific facts i read about in this topic are firing arc and supression rate.
line of sight also includes the maxim.
the rediclious videos showing the ineffectivness of flanking i see more of a problem of the bad close range performance of the Nosin Nagant / Kar98K and the whoopy doopy performance of molotovs rather than an unbalanced uber effectiveness of the MG42.

nullist pointed out that the mg42 never has been buffed except the reasonable crew increase and stated that there shouldnt and most likely wont be nerf bombs coming for this weapon so many people here calling for. and for a reason.

reason... a thing i was missing i many posts especially in replies to his comments.

I dont always agree on nullists thoughts and i am certainly not okay with how he expresses himself sometimes. he actually digs into the game and its machanics and therefore knows 1 or 2 things about this game and can sound arrogant sometimes when trying to bring in this knowledge.

that he is getting contra for this, fine.
but that he is getting a bashing like this right under the eyes of an admin is a no go.

so now go on try calling me a fanboy and make a moron out of yourself.

ace4sure is also my steam nick. i am no pro, i only have an average play time thanks to woman and work and still i know much more about this game than you (excluding relic devs ofc).

regerds (from france)
ace

P.S. trying to get internet in france sucks ass.