We're currently reviewing weapon teams, I feel we have some solid solutions which should resolve the majority of concerns listed.
A hint would be nice. Just a smidgeon.
Sick/bored of MG42 -.-
3 Sep 2013, 15:46 PM
#41
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedA hint would be nice. Just a smidgeon.
3 Sep 2013, 16:29 PM
#42
Posts: 101
Yeah, I'm just hoping that whatever they do is adequate. I'm pretty sure things weren't this bad in vCoH. I'd love to see more early grenadiers so I could have a firefight instead of "lol suppressed" and run back to my base so they can cap the map.
Riflemen vs. volks duking it out in green cover was what made vCoH feel epic. Let's get back to that.
Riflemen vs. volks duking it out in green cover was what made vCoH feel epic. Let's get back to that.
3 Sep 2013, 21:00 PM
#43
Posts: 622 | Subs: 1
Riflemen vs. volks duking it out in green cover was what made vCoH feel epic. Let's get back to that.
Oh and I still want my jeep/bike unit. Let be honest, what's the fucking use of wires if some t1 units can crush it ?
edit: but I'm off topic now, so shhhhh.
4 Sep 2013, 00:24 AM
#44
Posts: 170
A hint would be nice. Just a smidgeon.
You have no idea how hard it is to not tell you what the change is!
They do have good reason to not release beta notes too early, people will whine and bitch even more when they revert something; or over-react to notes that aren't final and are still subject to change.
4 Sep 2013, 00:33 AM
#45
Posts: 60
A hint would be nice. Just a smidgeon.
Sounds like they are still working on it. The 4-man squad patch was a band aid to buy time for the real fix.
4 Sep 2013, 05:01 AM
#46
Posts: 525
LoL it happens to me everytime...MG 42 spam,flank,throw molotov,guy picks up mg,runs 100 yards with it,faster than my conscripts and then same old story : surpress,pin,retreat....and gg 
...I guess thats how the Soviet Union won the war,everyone in the German Army was retreating from non-flammable molotovs until they reached Berlin
...I guess thats how the Soviet Union won the war,everyone in the German Army was retreating from non-flammable molotovs until they reached Berlin
4 Sep 2013, 06:34 AM
#47
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedYou have no idea how hard it is to not tell you what the change is!
If your happy with it, I probably will be too.
4 Sep 2013, 15:50 PM
#48
3 Posts: 587
LoL it happens to me everytime...MG 42 spam,flank,throw molotov,guy picks up mg,runs 100 yards with it,faster than my conscripts and then same old story : surpress,pin,retreat....and gg
This made my day
4 Sep 2013, 19:01 PM
#49
Posts: 247
In my oppinion the MG would be ok if the made flanking and close quarters effective again and cover more meaningfull. Though this concernes all weapons teams on both sides, especially the Soviet ones as they have the six man crews.
I dont see them fixing this, though, as it seems to be theire new philosophy that the smood infantryplay from vCOH is replaced with longer skirmishes where flanked support weapons arent really punished. The fact that it looks ridicilous and totally ruins what made the infantrycombat of vCOH great dosent seem to concerne them much. I mean, its been this way since closed Beta and they have hade plenty of time to change this. Still, they stick with this sollution, and even increased german team sizes, to make the awkwardness even.
But say they fixed flanking, and fixed the infantrycombat closer to vCOH. How on earth would they then balance out the clowncars? It would eat an unflanked MG in a second.
I dont see them fixing this, though, as it seems to be theire new philosophy that the smood infantryplay from vCOH is replaced with longer skirmishes where flanked support weapons arent really punished. The fact that it looks ridicilous and totally ruins what made the infantrycombat of vCOH great dosent seem to concerne them much. I mean, its been this way since closed Beta and they have hade plenty of time to change this. Still, they stick with this sollution, and even increased german team sizes, to make the awkwardness even.
But say they fixed flanking, and fixed the infantrycombat closer to vCOH. How on earth would they then balance out the clowncars? It would eat an unflanked MG in a second.
4 Sep 2013, 22:52 PM
#50
Posts: 333
To Peter: I really think you're a nice guy and mean no disrespect but:
How can you guys make such mistakes regarding balancing a game? When you made the MG42 go from 3 to 4 men did you not look further than "We want them to be more durable vs clowncars/flamers"?
To be honest it really baffles me. Especially because this game uses the same fundamentals CoH1 does: a game that has been patched and balanced for 7 years. The whole MG42/flanking mechanics could've basically just been copied from there. It feels to me like you guys are trying to reinvent the wheel here.
What were you thinking when you made the game so an MG42 could just stand in flames, pack up and relocate while taking close to zero damage? How on earth was it approved that conscripts can just chase an MG42 walking all over the map doing pretty much no damage?
In my opinion this is not a matter of tweaking flanking balance a bit, it needs BIG changes.
How can you guys make such mistakes regarding balancing a game? When you made the MG42 go from 3 to 4 men did you not look further than "We want them to be more durable vs clowncars/flamers"?
To be honest it really baffles me. Especially because this game uses the same fundamentals CoH1 does: a game that has been patched and balanced for 7 years. The whole MG42/flanking mechanics could've basically just been copied from there. It feels to me like you guys are trying to reinvent the wheel here.
What were you thinking when you made the game so an MG42 could just stand in flames, pack up and relocate while taking close to zero damage? How on earth was it approved that conscripts can just chase an MG42 walking all over the map doing pretty much no damage?
In my opinion this is not a matter of tweaking flanking balance a bit, it needs BIG changes.
4 Sep 2013, 23:12 PM
#51
Posts: 337
This would be pretty easily fixed if Conscripts were better at short range and Grens better at long range like in vCOH. I miss the Gren vs Riflemen dynamic.
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4 Sep 2013, 23:18 PM
#52
Posts: 247
To Peter: I really think you're a nice guy and mean no disrespect but:
How can you guys make such mistakes regarding balancing a game? When you made the MG42 go from 3 to 4 men did you not look further than "We want them to be more durable vs clowncars/flamers?"
To be honest it really baffles me. Especially because this game uses the same fundamentals CoH1 does: a game that has been patched and balanced for 7 years. The whole MG42/flanking mechanics could've basically just been copied from there. It feels to me like you guys are trying to reinvent the wheel here.
What were you thinking when you made the game so an MG42 could just stand in flames, pack up and relocate while taking close to zero damage? How on earth was it approved that conscripts can just chase an MG42 walking all over the map doing pretty much no damage?
In my opinion this is not a matter of tweaking flanking balance a bit, it needs BIG changes.
I agree, and thats what I tried to say in my post above. They had a game mechanic that they nailed and then perfected over several years. Then they choose to scrap it and wastes resources on reinventing this aspect of the game, though with an inferior solution in the end. Its verry hard for me to understand why they went and changed it in the first place.
5 Sep 2013, 05:32 AM
#53
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedMG42 has been the same since before the last patch, yet only recently this enormous whinage.
Funny how this enormous Sov whine always comes with 2 months delay.
Even funnier how in several threads sov fanbois repeatedly ignore hard facts on unit stats.
HMG changes are in the pipeline, that much is clear.
But Imnquite certain it wont be ANYTHING like what sov extremists are unreasonably shouting for.
Funny how this enormous Sov whine always comes with 2 months delay.
Even funnier how in several threads sov fanbois repeatedly ignore hard facts on unit stats.
HMG changes are in the pipeline, that much is clear.
But Imnquite certain it wont be ANYTHING like what sov extremists are unreasonably shouting for.
5 Sep 2013, 06:03 AM
#54
Posts: 934
I've actually been complaining about the emphasis on small arms fire based flanking since the alpha stages of the game. I think each patch though has directly or indirectly decreased the effectiveness of flanking and now its beginning to peak.
Primary offensive based flanking tactics has always been sub par option in the early game compared to other strategic choices. To be honest any little bit they adjust to fix the game in this department I will be happy.
Primary offensive based flanking tactics has always been sub par option in the early game compared to other strategic choices. To be honest any little bit they adjust to fix the game in this department I will be happy.
5 Sep 2013, 06:18 AM
#55
Posts: 35
To Peter: I really think you're a nice guy and mean no disrespect but:
To be honest it really baffles me. Especially because this game uses the same fundamentals CoH1 does: a game that has been patched and balanced for 7 years. The whole MG42/flanking mechanics could've basically just been copied from there. It feels to me like you guys are trying to reinvent the wheel here.
My 2v2 partner and I had pretty much that same conversation recently. Relic caught lightning in a bottle with COH1 and for some reason has opted to throw that bottle away for COH2. It's just confounding. COH1 was a fantastic game. Relic, stick to your roots!
Hey Nullist, you do realize that since retail (and therefore beta) scout cars, Soviet mortars and Maxims have all been nerfed, right? Those are the early game counters to MGs. So, as people have adjusted to the new meta it shouldn't be that much of a surprise to see an uptick in MG dominance. The game is evolving, as it is want to do, and right now German MGs are sitting on top. Yes, changes are coming, and that's a darn good thing.
5 Sep 2013, 06:34 AM
#56
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned@Stephen: Yeah, but you at least keep it objective and recognise its an HMG and support team issue, not an exclusive MG42 issue like the ranters with all their hyperbole.
@Furyn: HT was triple nerfed, AC upgun was bugged till last patch, Ost support teams where sub-par survival and Ost Mortar was seriously under performing. Maxims owned the shit out of MG42s till they got deservedly nerfed. Ost was basically underperforming in its entire Support section and Clowncar spam was ridiculous.
Game is evolving, but peoples ranting and unobjective shouting, however, doesnt.
Change is good, but Im quite certain HMG change will be nothing like what Sovfanbois are madly shouting for with lots of personal insults, disparagment of Relic and other pretty shitty conduct. Especially those who completely ignore factual posts about actual stats such as Cons vs Grens REPEATEDLY.
As Stephen pointed out, main impetus should be in rewarding flanking. That goes for both factions, however, which the Sov maniacs completely overlook.
@Furyn: HT was triple nerfed, AC upgun was bugged till last patch, Ost support teams where sub-par survival and Ost Mortar was seriously under performing. Maxims owned the shit out of MG42s till they got deservedly nerfed. Ost was basically underperforming in its entire Support section and Clowncar spam was ridiculous.
Game is evolving, but peoples ranting and unobjective shouting, however, doesnt.
Change is good, but Im quite certain HMG change will be nothing like what Sovfanbois are madly shouting for with lots of personal insults, disparagment of Relic and other pretty shitty conduct. Especially those who completely ignore factual posts about actual stats such as Cons vs Grens REPEATEDLY.
As Stephen pointed out, main impetus should be in rewarding flanking. That goes for both factions, however, which the Sov maniacs completely overlook.
5 Sep 2013, 08:00 AM
#57
Posts: 409
Primary offensive based flanking tactics has always been sub par option in the early game compared to other strategic choices. To be honest any little bit they adjust to fix the game in this department I will be happy.
+1
Especially those who completely ignore factual posts about actual stats such as Cons vs Grens REPEATEDLY.
There's a lot of those, aren't there?
5 Sep 2013, 08:11 AM
#58
Posts: 896
To Peter: I really think you're a nice guy and mean no disrespect but:
How can you guys make such mistakes regarding balancing a game? When you made the MG42 go from 3 to 4 men did you not look further than "We want them to be more durable vs clowncars/flamers"?
To be honest it really baffles me. Especially because this game uses the same fundamentals CoH1 does: a game that has been patched and balanced for 7 years. The whole MG42/flanking mechanics could've basically just been copied from there. It feels to me like you guys are trying to reinvent the wheel here.
What were you thinking when you made the game so an MG42 could just stand in flames, pack up and relocate while taking close to zero damage? How on earth was it approved that conscripts can just chase an MG42 walking all over the map doing pretty much no damage?
In my opinion this is not a matter of tweaking flanking balance a bit, it needs BIG changes.
Its very probable that the people in charge of this game/project are not the same ones that made the original game.
5 Sep 2013, 08:22 AM
#59
15 
Posts: 786
Its very probable that the people in charge of this game/project are not the same ones that made the original game.
or maybe they just wanted to make a different game and not a vCoH with updated graphics???
5 Sep 2013, 08:26 AM
#60
Posts: 896
or maybe they just wanted to make a different game and not a vCoH with updated graphics???
Could be, but the game has so many major design flaws, it goes beyond balance. That's what makes me suspect different people involved. The previous game was much better made.
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