Grenadier rifle grenade.

It has a very long wind up animation, like the molotov. That's its timer.

So, understanding how the molly is balanced is a great way to explain what is wrong with the rifle grenade.

The Molly's drawbacks actually merrior the benefits of the rifle grenade.

Molly is easy to see coming because of the range; as it's been noted, the enormous range of the rifle grenade makes it difficult to see coming. This is a benefit.

The Molly's locked behind side tech. Costing fuel. Making its appearance inconsistent. The rifle grenade is available almost immediately and consistently used. Molly set back vs rifle grenades benefit.

The Molly's no timer is offset by how long it takes to kill everyone. That is what is balancing it. The rifle grenade kills instantly. The the time you get before the molly full damage is applied is the time you are given to react to it, that's if you don't see it coming. The rifle grenade has nothing like this. Nothing like what makes the molly balanced.

The rifle grenade is bridled by nothing. Has no offsets, is easy to access and use. Its not even particularly expensive. And can be used against a variety of enemies. And is great on buildings as like just a plus.

Iam going to mention again, there is nothing here to show that this mainline unit needs an elite unit ability.

Iam going to mention again, there is nothing here to show that this mainline unit needs an elite unit ability.

I agree with everything except for this.

the grenadier is awful at flanking. The rifle grenade allow them to handle hmg without needing to do crazy maneuver like the volks, rifles, or conscript. (conscript have oorah + molly. Rifle used to have smoke + nade)

That said, I think the OHK AOE just need to get a bit smaller. Rifle grenade is 100% accurate so having a smaller OHK isn't a huge problem if you drop it directly on the mg gunner.

Not really, if multiple engagements are happening at the same time and someone rifle nades you, if you retreat 1 second late your squad could be wiped, I think thats really stupid, because that could cause you to lose the game, and only for 30 munitions.

How is this any different from USF/UKF grenades?
(except for the sometimes buggy sound queue)

its one of the last thing to wipe units for OH. look woh much wiping potencial other faction have ...and grens are only 4models...they would suck even more when you take away their grenades.

How is this any different from USF/UKF grenades?
(except for the sometimes buggy sound queue)

For all the reasons you didn't quote.

How is this any different from USF/UKF grenades?
(except for the sometimes buggy sound queue)

The main difference is that rifle nades are free, that is why you will see more squads wiped by them. Otherwise it would be the same. Grenades and rifle nades should be a tactical tool to dislogde squads from cover/garrisons and win engagements, not a game winner squad wiper. I think one of the ways this could be achieved would be increasing the aoe and reducing the damage.

Rifle grenades are easier to dodge than standard grenades, you've just got to watch for the Grenadier model dropping to his knees.

If there's a problem with Rifle Grenades there's a problem with grenades in general.

The main difference is that rifle nades are free, that is why you will see more squads wiped by them. Otherwise it would be the same. Grenades and rifle nades should be a tactical tool to dislogde squads from cover/garrisons and win engagements, not a game winner squad wiper. I think one of the ways this could be achieved would be increasing the aoe and reducing the damage.

Free of tech, but costly in a munitions-heavy faction. And it's not like the USF/UKF teching is that incredibly expensive either, with decent map control it will delay tech/vehicles by about 30-60 seconds.

While I could agree that grenades in general could be tweaked to deal damage / dislodge rather than wiping, I do not agree with this thread's trend to make the problem about rifle grenades in particular and ignoring the similar wiping potential of Allied grenades.

How is this any different from USF/UKF grenades?
(except for the sometimes buggy sound queue)

It's different to ALL grenades. The thing is not a specific issue, but rather a sum of things.

-The way to dodge it, is basically been able to spot the animation. Visuals can be hidden on cover or bug out.
While it may take a while from the perspective of the one using it, it's similar as to how the Stuka dive bomb sound queue plays several seconds later after been cast.
-Sound queue almost never plays on time in order to be able to dodge it properly.
-Range. Most grenades forces your squad to be in mid range. Long range means that any infantry engagement is potentially one on which rifle nades can be used.

Ability is fine, except for the first 2 points. I'll say that it is also fine against SU/USF due to model count and/or playstyle. UKF playing with basically 4 models and hugging cover all the time are the ones who i'll say are more vulnerable to it.

Hey guys lets, nerf the only thing good left on the grenadiers. "But you can't see the timer on the rifle nade so when there's multiple engagements, you won't see the timer?" Same with any other grenade. When there's multiple engagements, you'll be hard pressed to locate those grenades too. There aren't any tool tips saying "grenade being thrown" so spamming the space button won't help you. The only thing you can rely on is audio cues, and if there is too much noise due to skill planes well, losing a squad is inevitable.

Not really, if multiple engagements are happening at the same time and someone rifle nades you, if you retreat 1 second late your squad could be wiped, I think thats really stupid, because that could cause you to lose the game, and only for 30 munitions.

Hm ... that is weird ... when I said the same about Satchel people like Katitof told me to l2p(obviously this can not be said to you since you are a really good player(rank 25-52) but still ironic in my opinion).Btw doesn't the same fit basically for every other nade which isn't as "powerful" as the german m 24 ?

The rifle nade would be fine if it weren't for the stupid bugs. Sometimes there's no grenade warning at all. Sometimes the warning comes only after the nade is halfway through the air.

What's worse is that I play using 4th world internet, so 2 to 3 second delays can mean everything

Hm ... that is weird ... when I said the same about Satchel people like Katitof told me to l2p(obviously this can not be said to you since you are a really good player(rank 25-52) but still ironic in my opinion).Btw doesn't the same fit basically for every other nade which isn't as "powerful" as the german m 24 ?

any wehr player should be aware of close quarter fight by default, it's their Achilles heel. It is their defining characteristic to lose against the US and Soviet at close quarter.

If the penal was close enough to satchel you, they would have wipe out your squad through sheer dps to begin with.

and this goes for just about any unit with the hand thrown grenade, except for the tommies. If the rifleman was close enough to throw a nade they were inside their optimum range. It was only a question of death by garand or death by grenade.

It's the difference between a 30m ability and a 20m ability.

Rifle grenades are easier to dodge than standard grenades, you've just got to watch for the Grenadier model dropping to his knees.

If there's a problem with Rifle Grenades there's a problem with grenades in general.

the range of the hand thrown grenade (20m) mean it's unlikely for more than one squad to be within the grenade throwing range. The wehr have already lost the fight if more than 1 or 2 rifleman get within range. The wehr player should really be falling back or retreat.

Even the volks is at a disadvantage at close range against the US and Soviet.


on the other hand, it's much easier for the grenadier to get within rifle grenade range. Small arms range is 35 meters and the rifle grenade have 30 meters. Most grenadier will be within range to use the rifle nade. There's more potential shooter and more potential victim.

any wehr player should be aware of close quarter fight by default, it's their Achilles heel. It is their defining characteristic to lose against the US and Soviet at close quarter.

If the penal was close enough to satchel you, they would have wipe out your squad through sheer dps to begin with.

and this goes for just about any unit with the hand thrown grenade, except for the tommies. If the rifleman was close enough to throw a nade they were inside their optimum range. It was only a question of death by garand or death by grenade.

It's the difference between a 30m ability and a 20m ability.



the range of the hand thrown grenade (20m) mean it's unlikely for more than one squad to be within the grenade throwing range. The wehr have already lost the fight if more than 1 or 2 rifleman get within range. The wehr player should really be falling back or retreat.

Even the volks is at a disadvantage at close range against the US and Soviet.


on the other hand, it's much easier for the grenadier to get within rifle grenade range. Small arms range is 35 meters and the rifle grenade have 30 meters. Most grenadier will be within range to use the rifle nade. There's more potential shooter and more potential victim.

I love how you completely ignore the minimum range.

If the rifleman was close enough to throw a nade they were inside their optimum range. It was only a question of death by garand or death by grenade.

By that same logic, don't fight grenadiers at their optimal long range.

I love how you completely ignore the minimum range.

By that same logic, don't fight grenadiers at their optimal long range.

rifle grenade range: 30-20 meters

US hand grenade range: 20-5 meters.

Rifleman getting within 20 meters of a grenadier it's not just strategy, it's their goal.

Conversely Staying outside of 20 meter is the grenadier's main tactic. Combat naturally get more deadly at close range so any player will pay more attention to unit that are closer to the enemy.

and fighting grenadier at long range is not optimum, but if it was that easy to get within 20 meters the wehr wouldn't even be a viable faction. Any wehr player will actively avoid letting within 20 meters.

If the penal was close enough to satchel you, they would have wipe out your squad through sheer dps to begin with.

and this goes for just about any unit with the hand thrown grenade, except for the tommies. If the rifleman was close enough to throw a nade they were inside their optimum range. It was only a question of death by garand or death by grenade.

Penals can generally not kill full hp support weapons before they pack up and retreat, while the satchel can easily kill the entire crew if the retreat is called only a second too late.

Same goes for Riflemen dps, they're nowhere near able to finish a 3-5 man squad before the Germans can timely retreat while a grenade can instantly kill 2-4 models with ease.

The discussion wasn't about grenades winning engagements, it was about their wipe potential. And in that regard Allied grenades/satchels are just as potent as the rifle grenade.

IMO either all grenades should be considered fine, or all of them should be tweaked to be force multipliers that deal hp damage rather than killing several models at once. The rifle grenade is not an isolated case.

The main difference is that rifle nades are free, that is why you will see more squads wiped by them. Otherwise it would be the same. Grenades and rifle nades should be a tactical tool to dislogde squads from cover/garrisons and win engagements, not a game winner squad wiper. I think one of the ways this could be achieved would be increasing the aoe and reducing the damage.

evry 2 treahd the same argument, MOD can we make a basic to posting guide ? like all faction get soemthing and lose somthing and nothing is free ?
u think it's free ? then why BF are there ? why can't u put sherck on anyone ? it's not free it's in the tech cost unlike ally they get a bit cheaper but mandatory package that comes later than normal ones and gives no freedom, like IT WAS ONT THE FUCKING VCOH where nobody said it was free
other factions get other percks (25 pounder,free squads,etc)

rifle grenade range: 30-20 meters

US hand grenade range: 20-5 meters.

Rifleman getting within 20 meters of a grenadier it's not just strategy, it's their goal.

Conversely Staying outside of 20 meter is the grenadier's main tactic. Combat naturally get more deadly at close range so any player will pay more attention to unit that are closer to the enemy.

and fighting grenadier at long range is not optimum, but if it was that easy to get within 20 meters the wehr wouldn't even be a viable faction. Any wehr player will actively avoid letting within 20 meters.

it's both their goal, what are u on about ? obviously they want to keep the rifle far away as they have better dps

evry 2 treahd the same argument, MOD can we make a basic to posting guide ? like all faction get soemthing and lose somthing and nothing is free ?
u think it's free ? then why BF are there ? why can't u put sherck on anyone ? it's not free it's in the tech cost unlike ally they get a bit cheaper but mandatory package that comes later than normal ones and gives no freedom, like IT WAS ONT THE FUCKING VCOH where nobody said it was free
other factions get other percks (25 pounder,free squads,etc)

Everyone except the Soviet. In soviet Russia you pay for everything while capitalist pigs get things for just being them