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russian armor

Grenadier rifle grenade.

12 Jun 2018, 17:04 PM
#61
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


Everyone except the Soviet. In society Russia you pay for everything while capitalist pigs get things for just being them
6 men,on field reinforce (cons) and cheaper tech
12 Jun 2018, 18:22 PM
#62
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

6 men,on field reinforce (cons) and cheaper tech

None of that is free. 6 man squads are the faction flavor, not a tech bonus. Merge is great and all but it's counteract Ed by absolutely no way to heal in field outside a single doctrine and their tech prices line up more or less when the side grades are added. They are not getting free squads or artillery or recon or AA doom emplacement or field reinforcement or their snares/nades/weapon upgrades just for teching up and they are the only faction to do so.
At any rate it wasn't a complaint oflr criticism it was a joke cause "communism is for people who want free shit"
12 Jun 2018, 20:18 PM
#63
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


None of that is free. 6 man squads are the faction flavor, not a tech bonus. Merge is great and all but it's counteract Ed by absolutely no way to heal in field outside a single doctrine and their tech prices line up more or less when the side grades are added. They are not getting free squads or artillery or recon or AA doom emplacement or field reinforcement or their snares/nades/weapon upgrades just for teching up and they are the only faction to do so.
At any rate it wasn't a complaint oflr criticism it was a joke cause "communism is for people who want free shit"
by the same argument the fact that ost has side grade inside tech cost is the faction flavor, or that usf gets squad when they tech up, etc

btw communism is for people who wants equal opportunity not free shit, that is capitalism for people who are born in milionare+ family
12 Jun 2018, 21:09 PM
#64
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

by the same argument the fact that ost has side grade inside tech cost is the faction flavor, or that usf gets squad when they tech up, etc


No, not by the same argument. "The 6-men bonus" for the soviets is a lot more like saying "higher armour value" is a bonus for axis. These "bonuses" are directly accounted for with very visible trade-offs. Axis tanks generally cost more; so do the 6-man squads except conscripts, who have a 20% larger target size than grenadiers, have no weapon upgrade, and need 35 fuel invested on JUST THEM alone (BP1 is 40 fuel) to get snare/mollys.

Now IMO getting the rifle-nade and LMG42 with Bp1 is not comparable to free Officers, 25lbers, and the OKW truck bonuses (only 1 of which is free anymore). But the divide is always larger between WFA and EFA than Axis and Allies. Despite the tendency of people to argue along those lines.
12 Jun 2018, 23:38 PM
#65
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



No, not by the same argument. "The 6-men bonus" for the soviets is a lot more like saying "higher armour value" is a bonus for axis. These "bonuses" are directly accounted for with very visible trade-offs. Axis tanks generally cost more; so do the 6-man squads except conscripts, who have a 20% larger target size than grenadiers, have no weapon upgrade, and need 35 fuel invested on JUST THEM alone (BP1 is 40 fuel) to get snare/mollys.

Now IMO getting the rifle-nade and LMG42 with Bp1 is not comparable to free Officers, 25lbers, and the OKW truck bonuses (only 1 of which is free anymore). But the divide is always larger between WFA and EFA than Axis and Allies. Despite the tendency of people to argue along those lines.
ALL WEAPON TEAM ARE 4 soviet get 6
13 Jun 2018, 01:12 AM
#66
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

ALL WEAPON TEAM ARE 4 soviet get 6

Which was accounted for in their balance. Nobody can say the maxim is up to snuff for 260mp MG outside its 6 man crew. Mg34 is comparable in performance but is a chunk cheaper as well, before this overhaul the mortar too was clearly inferior. The zis while versatile is also "worse" in its AT role than 4 man crewed AT guns (although that barrage is pretty tight, should probably be a vet ability tbh...) the 6 man squads is a design choice clearly offset by performance.
An example of 6 men being a teching perk would be- cons are green clones, when t3 is built they get an extra model so they can trounce them like Tommy's do then at t4 they get another model. That's not the case. They pay for durability with performance across the board.

Also, is the Pak howi a Soviet weapon team or is its 6 man squad a perk from teching?
OH and also iirc the 120mm is now a 5 man squad...
13 Jun 2018, 06:07 AM
#67
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

ALL WEAPON TEAM ARE 4 soviet get 6


And all Ostheer faction is design to fight 6men squad. Better mainline infantry, better upgrade, better armor, better pen, better damage etc...
Hey should we say the statistic difference between the Zis and Pak is a free buff for Ostheer? It doesn't make sense.

Soviet is the only faction that doesn't get free stuff. end of the story.
13 Jun 2018, 06:12 AM
#68
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

you act like that upgrade are expansive. lol no..they are really cheap...for the buffs you will get on your infantery. and the commander upgrades and calins are really strong from sov. with the strongest in game.

sov is meta actually. everybody know that.
13 Jun 2018, 19:39 PM
#69
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2018, 06:07 AMEsxile


And all Ostheer faction is design to fight 6men squad. Better mainline infantry, better upgrade, better armor, better pen, better damage etc...
Hey should we say the statistic difference between the Zis and Pak is a free buff for Ostheer? It doesn't make sense.

Soviet is the only faction that doesn't get free stuff. end of the story.
ok lets get this clear, if it's allied it's by desing if is axis is free ? whats the argument aganist granade in tech cost if i say " it's counted and balanced in the desing making them weaker and having limitations"?
every faction has pro and cons
13 Jun 2018, 19:41 PM
#70
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

ok lets get this clear, if it's allied it's by desing if is axis is free ? whats the argument aganist granade in tech cost if i say " it's counted and balanced in the desing making them weaker and having limitations"?
every faction has pro and cons


That's basically what I'm saying, USF lt, cap and major are free as wel
13 Jun 2018, 19:42 PM
#71
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


Which was accounted for in their balance. Nobody can say the maxim is up to snuff for 260mp MG outside its 6 man crew. Mg34 is comparable in performance but is a chunk cheaper as well, before this overhaul the mortar too was clearly inferior. The zis while versatile is also "worse" in its AT role than 4 man crewed AT guns (although that barrage is pretty tight, should probably be a vet ability tbh...) the 6 man squads is a design choice clearly offset by performance.
An example of 6 men being a teching perk would be- cons are green clones, when t3 is built they get an extra model so they can trounce them like Tommy's do then at t4 they get another model. That's not the case. They pay for durability with performance across the board.

Also, is the Pak howi a Soviet weapon team or is its 6 man squad a perk from teching?
OH and also iirc the 120mm is now a 5 man squad...
do u remember at what number the howy gets decrewed ?
and i said in the post above by playing the desing card one can justify everything, after all "u can't double up lmg 42, u cant put sherck on any unit, etc" as u can see i played like u the desing card
13 Jun 2018, 20:34 PM
#72
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

do u remember at what number the howy gets decrewed ?
and i said in the post above by playing the desing card one can justify everything, after all "u can't double up lmg 42, u cant put sherck on any unit, etc" as u can see i played like u the desing card

I remember, it was a pot shot at the point that all Soviet weapon. Teams have 6 man squads as a teching bonus. It's as a design bonus. I don't know why you have your panties in such a twist here all I did was make a joke about how the Soviet are the only faction that doesn't get gifted bonuses just for teching up. That's it. I don't think it's a balance concern, nor do I think grens getting stuff via battle phases is a problem (as matter of fact I thibk they should get MORE things from battle phases to make it more unique instead of an archaic underutilized tech structure)

Grens are the only mainline infantry not t0 (t1 is cheap as balls, but they are still slightly delayed) I don't see an issue with skipable squad getting kitted out with progression.
17 Jun 2018, 16:25 PM
#73
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

ok lets get this clear, if it's allied it's by desing if is axis is free ?


No. You literally had multiple people comparing soviets to the other 4 factions free thing, and now you're trying to make it an axis v allies argument...

Everyone here has mentioned Brits and US free stuff multiple times.
23 Jun 2018, 05:21 AM
#74
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

6 men,on field reinforce (cons) and cheaper tech


conscript transfer into another squad retain the high target size.

There's also the fact the act of transfer will likely mean the giving conscript have to retreat.
23 Jun 2018, 13:36 PM
#75
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



conscript transfer into another squad retain the high target size.

There's also the fact the act of transfer will likely mean the giving conscript have to retreat.

+if the number of models on the field remains constant, its NOT reinforcement.
23 Jun 2018, 13:44 PM
#76
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

I don't know if someone already said that but I think its the only grenade that also has a sound "warning" (not the unit that says grenadeeeee). So I think it's fine.
22 Jul 2018, 16:07 PM
#77
avatar of Loki

Posts: 96

What about this, using the same symbol as the
mg set up timer; the rifle grenade has that set up timer from the point of the ability commencement to when the grenade is in the air. And this "set up" timer can be seen from outside of line of sight.

This would make the time from activated ability to execution the same. Unlike the suggestion which started this thread.

Meaning the old suggestion to make the rifle grenade a time release grenade; is replaced by this new suggestion.
22 Jul 2018, 16:15 PM
#78
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 956

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2018, 16:07 PMLoki
What about this, using the same symbol as the
mg set up timer; the rifle grenade has that set up timer from the point of the ability commencement to when the grenade is in the air. And this "set up" timer can be seen from outside of line of sight.

This would make the time from activated ability to execution the same. Unlike the suggestion which started this thread.

Meaning the old suggestion to make the rifle grenade a time release grenade; is replaced by this new suggestion.

+1
22 Jul 2018, 16:55 PM
#79
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2018, 16:07 PMLoki
What about this, using the same symbol as the
mg set up timer; the rifle grenade has that set up timer from the point of the ability commencement to when the grenade is in the air. And this "set up" timer can be seen from outside of line of sight.

This would make the time from activated ability to execution the same. Unlike the suggestion which started this thread.

Meaning the old suggestion to make the rifle grenade a time release grenade; is replaced by this new suggestion.



It's a good idea mostly. It definitely shouldn't be seen from outside LOS though. No other grenade gets punished for making ambushes by utilising LOS blockers. The timer helps with identification, which can be a common problem because the squad animation isn't very obvious when the squad is behind cover. Making sure the grenade warnings are consistent and not bugged also helps a lot.

I fking hate it when my idiot infantry shout "grenade" when they are the ones throwing the damn thing, yet when the enemy is throwing a grenade they wait till the grenade has landed and timer has started to actually start yelling the grenade warning. Even worse when rifle grenade warnings bug out and don't even get soundd at all.
23 Jul 2018, 14:39 PM
#80
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Iirc in the Awful Soviet campaign the rifle nade had a timer for firing. It was impact so if you missed the launch you were still boned but it mostly highlighted the buggy animation
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