It' not like germans wasn't OP before this patch. Soviets are forced to cheesy play like scout cars or sniper spam or using same units like guards and 120mm mortars.
Bring back flanking, that's one of the basic things, that made this game special amongs other RTS. With current MG42 imba fast pin rate, and infantry dealing no damage with their rifles it's impossible. When you know what ure doing, mg42s can win game in first 10 mins.
This patch did nothing and i didn't remember coh players pop to be that low, even after 6 years of vcoh.
Worse patch in history !!
23 Aug 2013, 13:43 PM
#41
Posts: 55
23 Aug 2013, 13:53 PM
#42
Posts: 9
Why do people insist on bringing up historical issues when this issue is brought up?
Because the developers apparently tried to be historically accurate, and that's not my fault or my problem. They have to be somewhat historically accurate to portray believable factions, I know some things don't make for good game play, but talking game mechanics, the general rule of thumb for this game is that soviets have more versatile units and more numbers, so they have cheaper units but more of them, to emphasize the soviet meat grinder, whereas the Germans have more expensive but better quality units.
I don't get where your coming from to be honest, just saying Germans have stronger armor is hardly going into historic detail is it, its about as basic a fact about German warfare as you can get.
23 Aug 2013, 13:55 PM
#43
Posts: 50
It' not like germans wasn't OP before this patch. Soviets are forced to cheesy play like scout cars or sniper spam or using same units like guards and 120mm mortars.
Bring back flanking, that's one of the basic things, that made this game special amongs other RTS. With current MG42 imba fast pin rate, and infantry dealing no damage with their rifles it's impossible. When you know what ure doing, mg42s can win game in first 10 mins.
Agreed... FLANKING soooo is dead!!! Its sad really.. And all this vaulting crap that was touted as the savior of gameplay, opening up maps for "flanking" was a joke..
23 Aug 2013, 14:03 PM
#44
Posts: 9
That is exactly right!! The one thing that was the conerstone of the Russian attack and defence, was the Conscripts!!
Now, micro skills dont even matter for Russian players.. You can control the whole map and by mid/late game its GG regardless of what units or combination of units you put on the field.. German win with AC/Shrek spam..
They may well have been the backbone of the soviet faction but they most definitely aren't the only units available to you playing as the soviets in this game.
23 Aug 2013, 14:04 PM
#45
Posts: 396
While I won't agree that Soviets are underpowered in this patch I would like to see flanking and cover bonuses as more a part of the game. Hopefully this will come in further patches. I've also been popcapped more in this patch than ever before (almost every game that lasts beyond 20 minutes). I don't really like that.
23 Aug 2013, 14:09 PM
#46
1 
Posts: 1006
I've also been popcapped more in this patch than ever before (almost every game that lasts beyond 20 minutes). I don't really like that.
Didn't happen to me yet but yeah, I don't like this either.
23 Aug 2013, 14:24 PM
#47
Posts: 176
Provide a screenshot, replay or broadcast of a rifle nade taking out an entire soviet squad in one shot. Also the squad cannot be stacked x6 men on top of each other, nor be in a building.
23 Aug 2013, 14:25 PM
#48
Posts: 9
While I won't agree that Soviets are underpowered in this patch I would like to see flanking and cover bonuses as more a part of the game. Hopefully this will come in further patches. I've also been popcapped more in this patch than ever before (almost every game that lasts beyond 20 minutes). I don't really like that.
+1
Flanking and ambushes should be a vital part of the game, and should work exceptionally well with the truesight sytem.....but they don't. I think ambushes work quite well, but flanking not so much, maybe we need better scout units to utilize this, a big buff to scout/clown cars sight range would improve this somewhat. I can't complain about this too much though as it is being improved with each patch, line of sight works much better now than it did on release.
23 Aug 2013, 14:31 PM
#49
Posts: 480
Rifle Grenades are hilariously strong, they can instagib a 6 man squad now if you're unlucky. They also frequently fuk infantry in houses.
And yes, you're right germans had trouble recovering but with cheaper tanks and incredibly strong infantry and germans figuring out how to use them it is possible to come back from anything. It's a combination of several factors.
To win as soviet you need those early game fuks (which won't happen against a competent enemy) and a lot of luck (PzIV being destroyed by a T70 for example).
What would GREATLY help Soviet play is a less retarded vehicle AI. I can't emphazise enough how a unit doing what you tell it to do would improve Soviet gameplay.
Riflenades have had no changes to their power far as I can see since closed beta. They probably should fuck up units that aren't moved out of small houses in time since the Germans don't have many good early anti-building options. They won't kill a six man squad unless it's both injured and clumped up, which is a skill thing on the part of both players. They're dodgeable and have no area denial like Molotovs.
Edit: Flanking should be made a bit stronger. I think PQ said they're looking into small arms vs MG balance.
I just tried T-70 rush last game. I forced him off the map completely, then annihilated his first Stug. Then he build the Halftrack Mortar, had one bad engagement (thanks flame mortar) and from then on it went down hill. I build 2 Su-85, one T-34 and another batch of 2xT-70 and couldn't stop the german advance. T70 funnily enough survived till the end but were ultimately rendered useless due to Stugs and Pshrecks everywhere.
If you have trouble dealing with snipers and SU-85s, build the Halftrack Mortar.
I have no idea how you managed to lose that other than just getting frustrated and throwing things away. Do you have a replay?
23 Aug 2013, 14:32 PM
#50
Posts: 9
Provide a screenshot, replay or broadcast of a rifle nade taking out an entire soviet squad in one shot. Also the squad cannot be stacked x6 men on top of each other, nor be in a building.
I have got some really nasty rifle grenade shots off, its usually much much worse when your opponent is in no/red cover, or backing off. In my opinion, a lot of the time, its much better to stay in cover and just accept the rifle grenade if you can't avoid it, backing off across flat ground usually makes it worse, but like I said, they're not consistent.
The soviet frag grenade is usually much worse, less telegraphed and harder to avoid in my opinion, and I have lost whole squads, sometimes multiple squads from one well placed grenade. I will try and find evidence, but I'm not complaining about them or saying they should be changed, I think they can both be deadly when used properly.
23 Aug 2013, 14:33 PM
#51
Posts: 29
So the Scout car now works as intended. And that's hideous?
Sure the Popcap changes are terrible. Truly awful. But otherwise every patch gradually brings more balance to the game.
Btw, Battlecruiser 3000AD had the worst patch ever /Kanye
Sure the Popcap changes are terrible. Truly awful. But otherwise every patch gradually brings more balance to the game.
Btw, Battlecruiser 3000AD had the worst patch ever /Kanye
23 Aug 2013, 14:34 PM
#52
15 
Posts: 786
I've also been popcapped more in this patch than ever before (almost every game that lasts beyond 20 minutes). I don't really like that.
not bad a news imho (at least in 2v2, in 1v1 might be too strict).
popcap punishes turtling and incentivates aggressive play
23 Aug 2013, 14:49 PM
#53
Posts: 396
Thanks for clearing up what popcap is intended to do. I wasn't sure...
At any rate, my argument isn't that popcap should be a part of the game. It's that the recent change effected it too much and yes, more so in 2v2s.
At any rate, my argument isn't that popcap should be a part of the game. It's that the recent change effected it too much and yes, more so in 2v2s.
23 Aug 2013, 14:54 PM
#54
Posts: 5
Before the patch is after the patch....
23 Aug 2013, 15:28 PM
#55
Posts: 978
Yeah, the popcap is annoying. I´m a 2vs2 player mostly and half of the games end up with me reaching the maximum popcap. The worst thing is that I´m then stuck at 100/100 with 2 or three Gren squads with 2 men, which can´t be reinforced. The logic consequence: Sacrifice them in suicide capping missions to at least have a full Gren squad again.
It´s annoying to only be able to support your Tiger with one Panzer IV and then you are done as the rest of the space is taken by your infantry force. The old popcap-system was better.
Also I think the capping of the map is not as rewarding as in CoH1. You can only influence fuel and munitions income. In the first Coh you could influence manpower income and popcap also. I know they wanted to make a comeback easier, but it´s just to much sometimes.
It´s annoying to only be able to support your Tiger with one Panzer IV and then you are done as the rest of the space is taken by your infantry force. The old popcap-system was better.
Also I think the capping of the map is not as rewarding as in CoH1. You can only influence fuel and munitions income. In the first Coh you could influence manpower income and popcap also. I know they wanted to make a comeback easier, but it´s just to much sometimes.
23 Aug 2013, 15:47 PM
#56
Posts: 644
The popcap is fine in 1v1. Can't really comment on 2on2 but it depends on map, on those horrible chokemaps I wish I had double cap.
5 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
23 Aug 2013, 16:24 PM
#57
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
You can control the whole map and by mid/late game its GG regardless of what units or combination of units you put on the field.. German win with AC/Shrek spam..
No. They get absolutely owned by AT nades, Guards, and Zis. But Russians are pretty weak right now without using the Sniper SU85 cheese. Ever since the HTD change and MG42 4 man buff the conscripts have lost viability as a main combat unit. Shocktroops damage is pretty underwhelming and the 480mp cost is ridiculous. Guards are "OK" anti infantry but you can only use them stationary and they have a chance to drop weapons every time they lose more than 2 men.
Whoever said you need to used "combined arms" how is that balanced from a resource perspective if you need to invest in multiple tiers just to stand up to Tier 1? Conscripts and Grenadiers need an increase in standard weapon performance, PPSH needs to fire more often, Shocktroops need to cost less but get a little bit of armor reduction, and they need to go back to the drawing board with the molotov/grenades because the way they work are silly.
23 Aug 2013, 16:28 PM
#58
Posts: 644
No. They get absolutely owned by AT nades, Guards, and Zis. But Russians are pretty weak right now without using the Sniper SU85 cheese.
Tbh, now that germans have learned to deal with that it's a whole lot less scary. I agree on the Shock Troops. They're outmatched by Pgrens, and that is a staple unit for 360 MP...
5 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
23 Aug 2013, 16:42 PM
#59
Posts: 978
Really? I agree that Russians are a bit weak now, but I never had problems with the shock troops as Russian. They own infantry. As soon as they hit the field the Grenadiers are running back in terror to keep the distance. Even PGs lose in a fight against them unless they are vetted. - And by that time the Shocks are usually also vetted. Recently I have been trying to use G43s to combat shock troops, but I find them incredibly hard to take out with small arms.
23 Aug 2013, 17:01 PM
#60
Posts: 644
Really? I agree that Russians are a bit weak now, but I never had problems with the shock troops as Russian. They own infantry. As soon as they hit the field the Grenadiers are running back in terror to keep the distance. Even PGs lose in a fight against them unless they are vetted. - And by that time the Shocks are usually also vetted. Recently I have been trying to use G43s to combat shock troops, but I find them incredibly hard to take out with small arms.
Tbh the validity of 480MP luxury doctrinal units are pretty irrelevant, when germans can simply drive their scout cars into your HQ and massacre everything there. And ST get murdered by Pgrens. I know that.
5 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
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