OKW stuka balance (possibly OP)?

Imo Stuka could be changed into using incendiary munition as default.

The salvo could be changed to fire them in pairs and CD lowered. That would make the unit good at dealing with support weapon and garrison but allowing the enemy to react while being more consistent than the current hit and obliterate everything or miss weapon.

The vet ability could then replace the incendiary rounds with HE.

That axctually does sound painful, annoying, unique and balanced.
Even if it was full barrage covering wide area on regular 90s cd.

It would be as much of a current team weapon counter as first axis area denial rocket arty and would provide enough time to run from the area, like with incendiary bombing of wehr or incendiary arty of soviet.

Just like any other rocket arty.

That is bullshit as stuka costs as much as katy.




LM is also doctrinal, a weapon Team that costs 50 fuel, can be stolen contrary to regular rocket arty and STUKA is the uncontested master of wiping squads easily from any range.



You can easily walk out of area of barrage when ist being fired blind form max range, because it is not going to hit anything reliably.

look the last games from Sunday from 2v2 Tournements, my lil Friend...

look the last games from Sunday from 2v2 Tournements, my lil Friend...

The ones, where axis roflstomped allies, like it was Happening for the most part of the tournament?
How Hans spammed mattresses and it did not helped him win?

The ones, where axis roflstomped allies, like it was Happening for the most part of the tournament?
How Hans spammed mattresses and it did not helped him win?

The last game where Hans and Devm didn't cover their flank to two suicidal flanks. Pwerfer and Stuka were winning them the game after havind had such a bad start, but they didn't thought about suicidal flank. Next patch will probably correct that to make T34 and Cromwell less performing against them.

The ones, where axis roflstomped allies, like it was Happening for the most part of the tournament?
How Hans spammed mattresses and it did not helped him win?

no. U mean the game where hans oponents easy atomize 4-5 units from them with LM and kat in one barrage.

and stuka didnt kill a AT crew while it was hit directly.

or the first and sec game where allies bomb the hell out of the german army with no chance to do anything against that.

no. U mean the game where hans oponents easy atomize 4-5 units from them with LM and kat in one barrage.

and stuka didnt kill a AT crew while it was hit directly.

The right die is overpowered, buff the left die?

I don't normally comment about the state of units from factions I don't normally play, but I make an exception for the OKW bellowing cow. As a primary Brit player, playing mainly team games, I absolutely loathe this unit.

It really is a two click support weapon delete machine and on maps with bridges and tighter lanes, its an absolute nightmare.

But personal bias aside, lets put everything into context.

As Armadillo stated: Axis rocket arty is controlled and predictable, all allied arty is an RNG machine.

A very import distinction to add to this, is that Axis rocket arty is burst or alpha strike, unleashing all its firepower within a few seconds. All allied arty on the other hand is sustained fire, meaning the arty piece fires over few tens of seconds.
Burst nature of axis, means the arty piece can blow its load and quickly retreat, even able start moving before the arty is even revealed to the allied player. This gives no chance for counter arty action, leaving tank diving as the only possible counter option for allies. Allies don't have this luxury and their arty pieces have to sit in place with there arse in the breeze while they fire, providing axis the chance to counter fire (they even have it as an ability) or call in an offmap.
Case in point, the landmatress has to move up pretty close and has the longest firing duration, providing ample opportunity for Stuka or off map to end it all.
Burst fire also means that anything caught in the target zone is buggered and for support weapons with pack-up time and no retreat, pretty much a wipe. Sustained fire and RNG spread at least gives the opposing player a chance to react and do something. You may get wiped, you may not, but its something.

This all culminates in axis having rocket arty that is low risk and high reward (based on skill), while allies tend to be more higher risk, with uncertain reward.

Now to stuka ze fuss specifically, lets talk about the more egregious aspects of the unit as, in my opinion, it typifies the worst qualities of the game.
- Timing: Arguably the most powerful rocket arty unit but can be first to hit field - why should this be the case? A landmatress might be relatively cheap but at 8cp, its gonna be a while before it hits the field and its not nearly as impactful.
- High damage: Each rocket does a huge amount damage (200 per rocket), easily able to wipe squads and is the only rocket arty capable of severely damaging tanks.
- Choose the destruction: It always fires in a line and the player can choose the line of attack. This means you can always hit at least two (stationary) units with your strike, while with other arty's RNG spread you might not hit anything at all. The ability to select where it hits makes a huge difference, especially against defensive lines or retreat paths.
- Not that expensive: With such a powerful arty piece, one would think it would come with a premium price tag, yet its only slightly more expensive compared to other arty pieces.
- Low risk: Its range is not bad, can fire from relative safety, while not having to worry about FOG spread and burst fire means it can quickly retreat.

Talk about having your cake and eating it. A unit can be good a somethings, but it has to have some downsides too. Sure doesn't seem to be the case with this unit.

The effectiveness of the unit is just compounded with other abilities and units, like the easily spammed offmap flares and IR half track.

Relic talk how there should not be auto wipe machines / abilities so how is it that this incarnation of the Stuka ze fuss still exists?

The main advantages of each style of rocket arty is also its weakness.
Axis rocket arty is predictable. You as an axis player know that in this area death will be had.... But so does your enemy... They can likley predict the juicy targets and move them and then thats it. Wipe or fail.
This also means a that if the axis player can predict the enemy's dodge pattern (is it full retreat? Is it soft retreat? Is ot move to the left? The right?) They can still make lemonade.

Similiarily the allied rocket arty is a cluster fuck of nobody knows where the rockets arw going to land outside of "here...ish" the unpredictability makes it dangerous on the receiving end and frustrating on the dishing side.
The main upside to allied rockets is that they are easy to use, the main downside is skill and predictability won't really help counter an enemy counter. Its got a low ceiling for reward because it cant really be controlled (yes, a katy can drive up and fire at min range for maximum reliability but if they feel they can do that and risk the unit or go unpunished you have goofed up damn hard.

Basically this^ Rocket arty is relativly balanced between factions currently with a good amount of asymmetry in the mix as well. The only thing bad about rocket arty is how spammable indirect is in general compared to how effective it is lategame. Specifically in teamgames.

Ah yes, this thread again.

Stuka has one job: counter team weapons. It does it very well.
Infantry can laugh at the stuka tho, since all you need to do is move slightly.

Unless it's on a bridge map, but who the fuck thinks bridge maps are balanced?

The stuka is balanced. It is fun? I would say all indirect fire is cancer atm.

It just needs the same change ALLLL big boomer units do to make them more consitant and less cheesy:reduce the OHK radius but give it a large damage area. Less wipes but more consitant coverage/reliable damage and for the love of god and all that is holy give it a modifier against team weapon weapons...

no. U mean the game where hans oponents easy atomize 4-5 units from them with LM and kat in one barrage.

and stuka didnt kill a AT crew while it was hit directly.

or the first and sec game where allies bomb the hell out of the german army with no chance to do anything against that.

you mean the game where a stuka barrage turned the game around by killing 2 katys and a guard right, which was again thrown by a desperate bid to stop the bleeding by hurling cromwells and t34s into the flank to kill the rocket arti that was slaughtering the allies?

I quite like the idea of giving the walking Stuka an incendiary barrage as it’s main barrage. Giving it somevsuppression would be a cool idea too, a lot like the vCoH nebelwerfer. It suppressed squads, did damage over time and was very frustrating to play against without being a squad wiping machine. It was a support weapon that supported rather than a support weapon that won games by wiping squads.

I quite like the idea of giving the walking Stuka an incendiary barrage as it’s main barrage. Giving it somevsuppression would be a cool idea too, a lot like the vCoH nebelwerfer. It suppressed squads, did damage over time and was very frustrating to play against without being a squad wiping machine. It was a support weapon that supported rather than a support weapon that won games by wiping squads.

than...whats wipes allie squads than? this was one of the last things from OKW which wipes units.
you forget all the wipes which you have as ost player EVERY game through awefull impact from allie indirect fire, mediums with the first shoot, etc....

okw has no good wiping potencial than anymore...ST was hard nerfed...ostwind hit shit, p4 maybe...only with luck a half lifed squad, KT wipes only every 12 shoot..

than...whats wipes allie squads than? this was one of the last things from OKW which wipes units.
you forget all the wipes which you have as ost player EVERY game through awefull impact from allie indirect fire, mediums with the first shoot, etc....

okw has no good wiping potencial than anymore...ST was hard nerfed...ostwind hit shit, p4 maybe...only with luck a half lifed squad, KT wipes only every 12 shoot..

What exactly makes you believe your squads should never be wiped, but you should be able to wipe opponents squads again?

Wipes are bad for the game.
That is either universally true or universally false.

There are not exceptions or grey areas.

than...whats wipes allie squads than? this was one of the last things from OKW which wipes units.
you forget all the wipes which you have as ost player EVERY game through awefull impact from allie indirect fire, mediums with the first shoot, etc....

okw has no good wiping potencial than anymore...ST was hard nerfed...ostwind hit shit, p4 maybe...only with luck a half lifed squad, KT wipes only every 12 shoot..

That’s exactly the point. One hit wonders are not good for gameplay and balance in general. Squads should be lost due to bad play, risky play that goes wrong or sacrificed purposely, such as to hold out on a VP in the end game.

Losing squads to single shot abilities is universally bad and no faction should be able to do it reliably, easily and non doctrinally.

Why do you think werfer needs nerfs? Yes, it is lethal when used at short range. But you risk a lot doing that. Apart from katyusha, no other arty needs to do that and even the soviet one can fire in an effective manner from further than werfer. The pwerfer is also behind huge tech wall compared to other artillery.

Katy and werfer seem pretty well balanced against each other and are IMO the most balanced rocket arty in the game. Werfer has a better alpha strike and suppresses but shoots less rockets total, and Katy is good in true soviet fashion because it just shoots moar rockets.