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Guards need a adjustment

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ElSlayer
1 May 2018, 12:11 PM
#61
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2018, 11:18 AMullumulu


like i said...i kill serveral axis tank with engine dmg with some guards...easily and it didnt take long time....the KT didnt drove 2 lines on the range map...


So, let me summarize your points on this thread according to scenario provided:

- Tank was damaged, because grenades doesn't do engine damage on full HP tank.l Probably it was shot by Guards' PTRS a few times with couple of penetrating shots
- There was source of vehicle snare, probably a Conscripts squad, so we're in scenario of Tank vs combination of units on opposing side
- Tank didn't pulled out in time, Cons managed to get close (oorah?) and throw AT grenade, let's assume it was driven into Button range and didn't manage to get out of it

Now here's it getting weird:
- Guards were able to chase down Tank and remove rest of its HP with PTRS, although they don't fire on the move and have to be static for full second to make a shot

Therefore, we have to nerf Guards reinforcement cost.

Am I correct in replaying scenario you've provided?
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ullumulu
1 May 2018, 12:17 PM
#62
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2018, 11:38 AMferwiner


It's you that wants to convince us to your views, not me. Also, if I was to boot up coh2, I would rather play it than make videos to prove somebody wrong. Especially when everybody knows that person is wrong.

you wanted other szenarios...so do it.
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ullumulu
1 May 2018, 12:19 PM
#63
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even the most well known caster say that guards are over the top....everybody who say here that they are fine...need to play against them and need to look not through their rosa red allie biased glasses
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Katitof
1 May 2018, 12:29 PM
#64
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2018, 12:19 PMullumulu
even the most well known caster say that guards are over the top....everybody who say here that they are fine...need to play against them and need to look not through their rosa red allie biased glasses

Let me guess.... ImperialDane, which is incredibly famous for his good casts and great axis bias?
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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ullumulu
1 May 2018, 12:33 PM
#65
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2018, 12:29 PMKatitof

Let me guess.... ImperialDane, which is incredibly famous for his good casts and great axis bias?


Beeep...you are wrong. AEC said this...
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Lago
1 May 2018, 12:36 PM
#66
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2018, 12:33 PMullumulu


Beeep...you are wrong. AEC said this...


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ferwiner
1 May 2018, 12:42 PM
#67
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2018, 12:33 PMullumulu

Beeep...you are wrong. AEC said this...


A_E is a good caster, streamer and even better community member. But I think everybody can agree that his stat knowledge is controversial at the very least, which doesn't make him a good "ballance oracle". Pretty sure he wouldn't even like being used as ballance argument. Ask cruzz if you want a guy who has real knowledge in stats and ballance.

Also, as pointed out in post #2, this thread is not exactly about guards being ballanced or not ;) I'm pretty sure everybody would like to see a non-biased, well-thought discussion about guards, though if that is what you wanted, then you already derailed your own thread in opening post.
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Alphrum
1 May 2018, 12:50 PM
#68
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this video doesn't prove guards are op. i think in ther current state falls are not as good as ther supposed to be
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ferwiner
1 May 2018, 12:54 PM
#69
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2018, 12:50 PMAlphrum
this video doesn't prove guards are op. i think in ther current state falls are not as good as ther supposed to be


Correct me if I'm wrong, but falls are pretty much okw meta at the moment. Also, they are pretty good at range for an ambush squad. In fact, they are probably the best ambush squad in the game right now, maybe apart from ostheer stormtroopers with stgs and their "wipe squad" ability.
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Alphrum
1 May 2018, 15:41 PM
#70
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2018, 12:54 PMferwiner


Correct me if I'm wrong, but falls are pretty much okw meta at the moment. Also, they are pretty good at range for an ambush squad. In fact, they are probably the best ambush squad in the game right now, maybe apart from ostheer stormtroopers with stgs and their "wipe squad" ability.


yh but at vet5, ther is no way a falls squad should be losing to a guard squad with ptrs, thats just mocking it tbh
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blvckdream
1 May 2018, 15:52 PM
#71
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Idk...in real games vet 5 falls eat guards...not sure if max range no micro testing is really all that meaningfull
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Rocket
1 May 2018, 17:38 PM
#72
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2018, 11:35 AMKatitof


You're talking in general or about ullumulu examples?

Because he is fully aware of how OP that button is.
That is why he uses it to attack move.


Lmao
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ElSlayer
1 May 2018, 22:11 PM
#73
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2018, 11:35 AMKatitof


You're talking in general or about ullumulu examples?

Because he is fully aware of how OP that button is.
That is why he uses it to attack move.

I also like the fact that Button can be countered by cheaper smoke ability on tanks.
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ShadowLinkX37
2 May 2018, 00:30 AM
#74
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jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2018, 22:11 PMElSlayer

I also like the fact that Button can be countered by cheaper smoke ability on tanks.


Which is doctrinal and only on 1 of the 2 axis factions?
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thedarkarmadillo
2 May 2018, 02:20 AM
#75
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2018, 00:30 AMShadowLinkX37


Which is doctrinal and only on 1 of the 2 axis factions?

unlike those pesky non doc guards right?
the ones that need 75mu to unlock button then 40(?) to use it while smoke doesnt need anything but 30mu and any old vehicle from 222 to tiger
also its only doctrinal on 1 axis faction, the other gets smoke on 2 vehicles non doc (puma and flak trak)
#stalinwept
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Firesparks
2 May 2018, 03:55 AM
#76
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The guard is definitely Strong, and probably one of the best infantry there is atm.

but it doesn't feel like they actually break the game. They are completely depending on their heavy weapon, which require them to remain stationary.


Even the ober's lmg34 can fire on the move.

Soviet in general is probably the best faction in the game,(definitely the best allied) and there are other definitely overpower unit I would nerfed first.


fallschirm need a buff definitely, and I don't think they provide a good metric. The guard's current performance is at the level where they are an attractive unit to use. The game would be better served looking at another unit.


even the ober feel a bit lack luster. Maybe their population is a bit too high.


guard vs Fallshirmjager and ober is like a shiny clean car next to a damage one. The solution isn't to break the shiny clean car.


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thedarkarmadillo
2 May 2018, 04:32 AM
#77
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Obers just come too late and have to contend with superpowered (at that point) allied squads because of vet and weapons. Falls i alwats thought were fine.... They arent conventional and dont do the "attack move throufh the enemy and 1 squad army the enemy" that you expect from paying that much for a squad but i dont think they are BAD.
#stalinwept
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ullumulu
2 May 2018, 05:52 AM
#78
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OK!

So all say that test szenario is not good.

So:
Tell us which is the szenario where you can show the performanche from guards, where we can see how good they are.
What are the condition...tell it pls with all details.

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Katitof
2 May 2018, 09:05 AM
#79
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2018, 05:52 AMullumulu
OK!

So all say that test szenario is not good.

So:
Tell us which is the szenario where you can show the performanche from guards, where we can see how good they are.
What are the condition...tell it pls with all details.


A replay featuring 2 decent players during a non stomp game would suffice.

Game is not about cover less, micro less 1v1 duels to the death, ESPECIALLY in regards to infantry and nothing less then actual game between players of equal and preferably high skill will yield any reliable results.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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ullumulu
2 May 2018, 09:25 AM
#80
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2018, 09:05 AMKatitof

A replay featuring 2 decent players during a non stomp game would suffice.

Game is not about cover less, micro less 1v1 duels to the death, ESPECIALLY in regards to infantry and nothing less then actual game between players of equal and preferably high skill will yield any reliable results.


i dont think that is the the performanche test which any develeoper would do. Its the task from a gametester.
To test the performanche you must select a szenario which is included in a gameround...not a whole gameround to test the performanche.
there are to many values for that...rng, playerskill, fail desicions, too late reactions and so on...

a performanche test mean that you test the unit against other unit in different situitions....with cover...without, on the move, with dmg engine, etc...

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