(SBP) Bren Guns

Tommys have a target size of .8 not .89 so its actually .8*.77=.62 and it coming at vet 2 is the kicker- EFA (grens for example) get their -23% target size at vet 3 so already more durable tommys get MORE durable SOONER. Moving ot to vet 3 might help with snowballing and the accuracy coming at vet 2 migh help with brens counting for more earlier to boot.

And grens are getting their 40% accuracy at vet2 to counteract rec acc of tomies.
Tommies also get only half of grens accuracy at vet3.

Tommys have a target size of .8 not .89 so its actually .8*.77=.62 and it coming at vet 2 is the kicker- EFA (grens for example) get their -23% target size at vet 3 so already more durable tommys get MORE durable SOONER. Moving ot to vet 3 might help with snowballing and the accuracy coming at vet 2 migh help with brens counting for more earlier to boot.

you know you are also justifying the conscript and rifleman's terminator bonus?

Nope, but its still additional cost you conveniently ignore.

Why are you whining about grens needing to be stationary to be effective?
Do you want me to remind you how amazing tommies are on the move?

And again, your mortars went exactly where? Oh right, you never had any, because you firmly believe 4 grens directly into tiger should win you a game.

If you let tommies throw a gammon bomb on you, you might want stop watching panzer pictures on your phone during the engagements. Exact same case with brit base arty, you know, that red smoke is not your grens fart after Reich Chilly.

What straw man are you going to pull next? How grens always walk up on a mine? How green cover moves together with tommies at all times, but grens are always in red?

As entertaining as you are, please spare us, there is only so much silliness these boards can bear.

you should learn to inform yourself before you suspect something and make multiple mistakes based on false knowledge. I have my twitch channel in my signature as a direct link...you could look in there and see that I do NOT play exactly as you describe it. But why bother...to make cheese, right?

you know you are also justifying the conscript and rifleman's terminator bonus?

I am? I reread my post and i cant see the words you are attributing to me. Iv in the past said that rifles are too durable and when cons got their hilariously high rec acc buff i posted my concerns, i still disagrew with the level of durability cons have especially after their reliability buff, i would much sooner a reinforcment reduction than an over the top durability buff. Target sizes across the board is out of hand however its a bigger deal on non 4 man squads because their durability is compounded with more models, and even with the hilariously high rec acc buff cons get
Tommys are STILL per man harder to hit. With 5 men vet 2 tommys are aproaching conparable durability to vet 3 cons, not quite but its getting there. And the slap on a pair of brens as you see fit.
Keep in mind that despite being a long range squad tommys are a smaller target size than sturm pios are (also a starting unit, but costs 20 more MP and doesnt have the advantage of sitting behind cover and eating units that have to close), they are the same size as panzer grens. Long range infantry with the same target size as elite medium range troops but can also boost their model count and heal themselves and can also buff their dps and can build their own cover and bleed less per man than their closest comparable unit... Who is inferiour. Its too much for 1 unit.

@Katitof that 40% is pretty big, but like the lmg42 its the only way they can contribute to a fight towards the late game. They suffer greatly from losses and have to retreat often so they need to make the time they are around count. They cant 1 click be 25% more durable firing 25% more shots. If tommys were a 4 man squad forever and always then everything would be fine, but they can always slap on an extra man if they have the fuel at any time and that throws everything, especially since they only need to do it once.

Hell. If they made the 5th man a per squad upgrade that locked out medic and pyro and took up 1 weapon slot id be happy. Being able to do everything but snare all on 1 unit is just too much...

I've done some tidying to remove some of the mudslinging. Lets try and stay on topic instead of all over the place.

the change in the current patch log would "fix" bren + vicker, but it still doesn't really address the underlining issue. There's still the possbility of m1919a6 + vickers for the USF in team game.

Yes, it's a very specific combo, but it's not a difficult combo to do.

Ultimately, I think vicker k needs to be made to take up two slot and balanced accordingly. or nerfed down to dp-28 level. The only real benefit of the vicker K is giving it to allies or shenanigans.

The fact that it's actually a different weapon mean there's more technical leeway. You can change the special weapon vicker K without worrying about accidently changing the bren. (like what happened with the coaxial and hull on the t34).

I think that the nerfed Vickers/Bren is now very close to DP-28 level, but I haven't double-checked.

The values I picked for accuracy are so as to make nerfed double-Brens perform as exactly in the middle between live-version single-Bren tommies and double-Bren tommies (also accounting for the enfield rifle that gets replaced)

Sigh... Seeing as to how the British Infantry were known to be accurate shooters in WW2, it really is a shame to see them this way. Paying 90 Munitions for 2 Brens that perform the same as 2 DP28s for 75 Munitions.

I'm not against a damage nerf but the Bren has officially lost it's character as a highly accurate LMG... While I do appreciate the work you guys do, Mr.Smith, this change is disappointing. Is there really no way to make them do short, accurate bursts that do the same DPS you are trying to achieve?

It may seem trivial to quibble about such things but as someone who likes reading and learning about WW2, authenticity is important too.

Sigh... Seeing as to how the British Infantry were known to be accurate shooters in WW2, it really is a shame to see them this way. Paying 90 Munitions for 2 Brens that perform the same as 2 DP28s for 75 Munitions.

I'm not against a damage nerf but the Bren has officially lost it's character as a highly accurate LMG... While I do appreciate the work you guys do, Mr.Smith, this change is disappointing. Is there really no way to make them do short, accurate bursts that do the same DPS you are trying to achieve?

It may seem trivial to quibble about such things but as someone who likes reading and learning about WW2, authenticity is important too.

they are still better than dp28s

Sigh... Seeing as to how the British Infantry were known to be accurate shooters in WW2, it really is a shame to see them this way. Paying 90 Munitions for 2 Brens that perform the same as 2 DP28s for 75 Munitions.

I'm not against a damage nerf but the Bren has officially lost it's character as a highly accurate LMG... While I do appreciate the work you guys do, Mr.Smith, this change is disappointing. Is there really no way to make them do short, accurate bursts that do the same DPS you are trying to achieve?

It may seem trivial to quibble about such things but as someone who likes reading and learning about WW2, authenticity is important too.

This. Limiting the bren to one should have been the way to go. Using dual bren for tommies just feel wrong.

the standard bren allocation for a british infantry divison was 1 bren per 10 men, compared to the german's 1 mg42 for a 9 men. Early war US rifle was 1 bar per 12 men, and eventually to 2 bar per 12 men.

hence it should be 1 bren for tommy, 1 lmg42 for gren, and 2 bar for rifleman.



The balancing the vicker K is a difficult job, but that weapon is ultimately second to the bren gun.

I'am very concerned about the nerf, yes Is are the best stock infantry when they are used properly, but they also have a big disadvantage and that's the lack of vehicle snares. It fell just way more relaxed when i play against brits and don't have to fear an engine dmg when i push right in to Is.

The other thing is that when i fight 3 or more long range fights against grens at the same time, i have a constantly fear that i get riflenaded. Which sometimes i have luck and can dodge it or sometimes i miss it and get a full squad wipe.

Piats have a shorter range than most AT do they not? What about allowing piats to deal engine damage avt a threshold? Or grant an snare ability that costs munitions?

Piats have a shorter range than most AT do they not? What about allowing piats to deal engine damage avt a threshold? Or grant an snare ability that costs munitions?

No Piat range is 35 as other rockets. AT rifles have 40.

No Piat range is 35 as other rockets. AT rifles have 40.

Ah my bad. I thought they were 30 range. Im curious if that would jive. Being cheaper and more flexible than shreks being different might be interesting. Or a lobbed shot (like old rifles snare but maybe more range) when the piat equipped could be neat. It wpuld be more work that all other snares but that would be the cost of being on any infantry squad they could field....