pzgren should be wehr's dedicated tank hunters

Penals : 6 men w SVT40 rifles. Bundled grenade. Lose half AI in side AT role.
PzGren : 4 men w STG44 rifles. Bundled grenade. Lose half AI in side AT role.

2x Pzshreks (better than bazookas)(more cost efficient muni wise than 'zooks)
(No fuel/manpower side teching, don't need weapon racks) has self-healing.
3x AT Rifles (weaker than bazookas)(No burst/shock value. Only useful vs
light vehicles). Low pen.

Corrections for penals:
-they get 2 ptrs, cons get 3
-satchel is not the same as nade, it can not be used as such unless opponent is blind or you happen to stumble on setting up MG round the corner
-satchel is replaced with AT only satchel with PTRS upgrade
-ptrs can be effective, but not efficient unless used on cons(because of cons cost and 3 PTRS instead of 2), in other situations ist only supplemental deterrent/anti armor flank weapon

Corrections for penals:
-they get 2 ptrs, cons get 3
-satchel is not the same as nade, it can not be used as such unless opponent is blind or you happen to stumble on setting up MG round the corner
-satchel is replaced with AT only satchel with PTRS upgrade
-ptrs can be effective, but not efficient unless used on cons(because of cons cost and 3 PTRS instead of 2), in other situations ist only supplemental deterrent/anti armor flank weapon

Playercard

I wouldnt say the penal PTRS is ineffective by any means, its just defensive.

Playercard

For what? Unit stats?

Ive always felt that pgrens die so easily

Three words: four man squads.

ALL four man squads die too easily and are 100% unviable.

Literally ANY five or six model squad is ALWAYS, under ALL circumstances superior to a four man squad.

Doesn't matter if the five or six model squad does a quarter of the four man squad's damage.
Doesn't matter if the five or six model squad has no abilities.
Doesn't matter if the five or six model squad has no upgrades.

There is NOTHING more valuable than stability in CoH2: whoever can get their squads to stay on the field longer before retreating will win.

That and the retarded tiny received accuracy reduction on Ostheer units being an utterly nonsensical "solution" to this whole imbalance, as it hasn't done its job since way back when there were only two factions, Ostheer and Soviets, since back then the game behaved far differently from what it's been since the release of the Western Front Armies.

Literally ANY five or six model squad is ALWAYS, under ALL circumstances superior to a four man squad.

can haz video of 5 man Rear echelon squad beating obers plz

can haz video of 5 man Rear echelon squad beating obers plz

What about 100 man RE squads all equipped with BARS

For what? Unit stats?

For the measure of allied bias

What about 100 man RE squads all equipped with BARS

D:

What about 100 man RE squads all equipped with BARS

Now I wish I still had my screenshot of a 100 pop RE squad where every man had a flamer courtesy of the Vetgate fix that broke pretty much everything else.

For the measure of allied bias

You do realize that stats are facts, right?

Flame post reported - and invised.

Back to topic.

Ive always felt that pgrens die so easily,

Three words: four man squads.

It's not as simple as number of men.

even the commandos would be cut down if they just rush the enemy. They are effective through the use of cloak and surprise nade.

The shocktrooper are extremely tough but they will still have trouble in an extremely open map.

(then there's also the ass grenadier who get the ass end of the deal).

The panzergrenadier theoretically have decent overall firepower, but in practice they end up being kind of meh in most combat situation.

ultimately the wehr need a practical anti-tank squad more than it needs the anti-infantry firepower. Without a common light tank of their own they suffer severely in t2 when the stuart and t70 come out.

Or OR. now hear me out, they use their AT gun. Its kinda like AT infantry, but with more range, more pen, more damage AND has the added benifit of not being gameplay cancer! Seriously why does there need to be a squad that can attack move armour? Is THE best AT mines not enough to snare up (or outright destroy light tanks) armour without fear of the support infantry detonating it good enough? If the pak40 isnt spooky enough for you you can pick a doctrine with the only weapon in the entire game that can 2 tap medium tanks. Use ambush camo and try more than attack moving across open ground and see how formitable a pair of shreks are then.


Seriously... Askn for a fucking attack movable, retreatable AT gun because the umpteen FANTASTIC anti-tank options ost already has requires more that a toddlers grasp of mouse control.... I have not the foggiest clue how you would survive playing OKW, with half the shreks (on a squishier squad) and a lesser AT gun and multi triggering mines. Or did you drop OKW when shreks were taken from volks because the faction was rendered unplayable?

compare panzergrens with guards. Cost only 20mp more and cost less muni...but the guards are so much better vs all targets...its awefull how bad panzergrens are compared to guards. guards didn lose 2model vs panzergrens when the get schrecks...but guards schredd armor like panzergrens..wtf

compare panzergrens with guards. Cost only 20mp more and cost less muni...but the guards are so much better vs all targets...its awefull how bad panzergrens are compared to guards. guards didn lose 2model vs panzergrens when the get schrecks...but guards schredd armor like panzergrens..wtf

Apples vs oranges, also guards are not exactly a stock unit.

Guards need an adjustment but comparing Guards to Pshrek PGrens is a bad comparison. Guards dont lose AI ability with PTRS in addition to getting 2 lmgs while Pgrens lose 50% of their AI firepower with the shrek upgrade.

Pretty sure Pgrens do good damage to Guards at medium Range with no upgrade as Pgrens Stgs do pretty good damage at mid-close range when unupgraded.

If we're talking about guards, it's performance before the patch is fine. It just needs to be adjusted to cost 330-340 mp. DP guards have always beaten lmg grens and also always beat the pre nerf stg volks in long range. I don't see why the guards needed a damage buff vs inf.