PW is great, what it doesn't wipe it also suppresses.
Wasn't suppression removed quite some time ago due to its murder potential?
I'm pretty sure it was.
no Counter for OKW and Wehrmacht Tank destroyers
22 Mar 2018, 15:58 PM
#41
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Wasn't suppression removed quite some time ago due to its murder potential?
I'm pretty sure it was.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Mar 2018, 16:09 PM
#42
Posts: 607
Still there as of now. Can test when I get home to confirm, but I'm like 95% certain it's there.
22 Mar 2018, 19:15 PM
#43
Posts: 808
You seem to be under some weird Impression that other artz pieces are somehow accurate on long range.
Let me burst that bubble of delusions and inform you that all other arty pieces are equally shit at max range and all mobile arty that can, ALWAYS SHOULD come as close as possible before unloading barrage, Katy being prime example here, where it wont even hit targetted sector if used from max range.
stop putting words in my mouth. Compare katy vs PW at close, mid and long range and tell me which one is best at all ranges. Have u never fired katy at close range and obliterated sqauds in 1 salvo? go play the god damn game instead spending ur life on these forums
22 Mar 2018, 19:25 PM
#44
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
stop putting words in my mouth. Compare katy vs PW at close, mid and long range and tell me which one is best at all ranges. Have u never fired katy at close range and obliterated sqauds in 1 salvo? go play the god damn game instead spending ur life on these forums
Close: PW no contest.
Mid: comparable, luck decides for both, but PW got slight advantage of alpha strike.
Long: Both are equally bad, PW hardly hits anything, Katy hardly hits anything over massive area and for extended time of short salvos.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Mar 2018, 19:45 PM
#45
Posts: 589
You all may laugh at OP, but he has a valid point. These two units are the only units in the game that don't have another unit as a hard counter, or an offmap hard counter. Everything suggested in this post up till now is a soft counter at best.
Every other unit in the game has.
Every other unit in the game has.
22 Mar 2018, 19:46 PM
#46
Posts: 919
stop putting words in my mouth. Compare katy vs PW at close, mid and long range and tell me which one is best at all ranges. Have u never fired katy at close range and obliterated sqauds in 1 salvo? go play the god damn game instead spending ur life on these forums
Katy is better, when you are very close, because it fires directly with low rocket travel time at close distance and its rockets will hit exactly in a very small circle to wipe some stuff. But that is risky because it dies in a matter of seconds to anything. Otherwise PW is way better with the aditional advantage that its shots can't be blocked by obstacles.
22 Mar 2018, 20:28 PM
#47
Posts: 5279
Katy is better, when you are very close, because it fires directly with low rocket travel time at close distance and its rockets will hit exactly in a very small circle to wipe some stuff. But that is risky because it dies in a matter of seconds to anything. Otherwise PW is way better with the aditional advantage that its shots can't be blocked by obstacles.
The best is when its a dead ass looking tree. Gumble
#stalinwept
22 Mar 2018, 21:11 PM
#48
Posts: 4474
seems a bit biased as all u saying pw is stricly better at all ranges when kat is used in 1 vs 1 too while pw are very rare
Close: PW no contest.
Mid: comparable, luck decides for both, but PW got slight advantage of alpha strike.
Long: Both are equally bad, PW hardly hits anything, Katy hardly hits anything over massive area and for extended time of short salvos.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
22 Mar 2018, 21:13 PM
#49
Posts: 4474
You all may laugh at OP, but he has a valid point. These two units are the only units in the game that don't have another unit as a hard counter, or an offmap hard counter. Everything suggested in this post up till now is a soft counter at best.how is at infantry not an hard counter ? the TD litterally can't run or do shit
Every other unit in the game has.
want to know an unit without hard counter ? the jackson , can run from at inf, can beat medium, can kite heavy, same range as at gun, can't be flanked
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
22 Mar 2018, 21:14 PM
#50
Posts: 607
seems a bit biased as all u saying pw is stricly better at all ranges when kat is used in 1 vs 1 too while pw are very rare
That's a question of teching though, not of unit performance.
As soviet you always go tier 4, wehrmacht does not need to.
22 Mar 2018, 21:15 PM
#51
Posts: 4474
then why ost doesnt go for tier 4 ? MAYBE CAUSE OTHER THAN BRUMBAR THE UNITS ARE BAD ?
That's a question of teching though, not of unit performance.
As soviet you always go tier 4, wehrmacht does not need to.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
22 Mar 2018, 21:18 PM
#52
Posts: 607
then why ost doesnt go for tier 4 ? MAYBE CAUSE OTHER THAN BRUMBAR THE UNITS ARE BAD ?
I don't think they're bad, but rather their tier 3 is so good they don't really need to.
How often did soviet players go tier 4 when t-34 was still in tier 3?
In team games, ost goes tier 4 quite regularly because those matches can take much longer. 1v1 I find rarely goes long enough for it.
22 Mar 2018, 21:18 PM
#53
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
then why ost doesnt go for tier 4 ? MAYBE CAUSE OTHER THAN BRUMBAR THE UNITS ARE BAD ?
Or maybe its a premium tier with premium cost and units above T4 of literally any other faction with exclusively brits having a rough equivalent in form of hammer/anvil tech side tech....
Sov T4 is not on the same power level as ost T4. Same for USF, OKW is closest thanks to panther alone, but all of OKW tiers are 0,5 more potent then equivalents of other factions.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Mar 2018, 21:24 PM
#54
Posts: 170 | Subs: 1
I don't think they're bad, but rather their tier 3 is so good they don't really need to.
How often did soviet players go tier 4 when t-34 was still in tier 3?
In team games, ost goes tier 4 quite regularly because those matches can take much longer. 1v1 I find rarely goes long enough for it.
If memory serves back in the day when T34 was in T3 it was really bad, penetration was worse and it didn't have the huge hull mg buffs so anti inf damage relied on lucky shots from the main gun. Best use was for ramming things.
The reason people went t3 was for the T70 mostly which was extremely potent squad wiping machine and the goal was to close out the game quickly before late game axis armor started to pile up. (or rely on call- in meta after t3) Also the T4 didn't require T3 and all the units T4 had were very situational/weak.
22 Mar 2018, 21:25 PM
#55
Posts: 919
then why ost doesnt go for tier 4 ? MAYBE CAUSE OTHER THAN BRUMBAR THE UNITS ARE BAD ?
Thats not the point. In 1vs1 you don't need T4 to win playing Ost, late game is short there and you are able to win with T3. Investing in T4 means you can build less units.
Look at the big battles 3vs3 and 4vs4, PW is really great in that modes, if you don't shoot at max range of course. Brummbar is very strong too and best in combination with those AT tank beasts to help fend of the infantry AT attacks. Add some AT infantry yourself, a pak and 1-2 MGs and the only hard counters versus Elefant/JT (swarming and flanking with fast cheap tanks or swarming with AT infantry) have a real rocky day. So while there is a hardcounter theoretically it hardly exists when you try to practice it.
22 Mar 2018, 21:30 PM
#56
Posts: 607
If memory serves back in the day when T34 was in T3 it was really bad, penetration was worse and it didn't have the huge hull mg buffs so anti inf damage relied on lucky shots from the main gun. Best use was for ramming things.
The reason people went t3 was for the T70 mostly which was extremely potent squad wiping machine and the goal was to close out the game quickly before late game axis armor started to pile up. (or rely on call- in meta after t3) Also the T4 didn't require T3 and all the units T4 had were very situational/weak.
Yeah, my point was that you don't make tier 4 if you don't _need_ it. Why would you? You're just using resources you could put to bolstering your army. If current ostheer meta is tier 3 is enough, then that's what players will do.
I imagine if OKW had the P4 moved to Mechanized, then a lot of OKW players wouldn't get Schwer either.
22 Mar 2018, 21:36 PM
#57
Posts: 170 | Subs: 1
Yeah, my point was that you don't make tier 4 if you don't _need_ it. Why would you? You're just using resources you could put to bolstering your army. If current ostheer meta is tier 3 is enough, then that's what players will do.
I imagine if OKW had the P4 moved to Mechanized, then a lot of OKW players wouldn't get Schwer either.
And my point was questioning the part about T34 being in T3 having much to do with majority of people picking T3 instead of T4.
22 Mar 2018, 21:41 PM
#58
Posts: 607
And my point was questioning the part about T34 being in T3 having much to do with majority of people picking T3 instead of T4.
Ok then pretend I said "before t-34s were useful and moved to tier-4" instead.
I didn't play during that time so I don't know all the specifics but I do recall watching cast games and soviet meta was something like "hold out and then call in 2x t34-85s from commander ability" or lend lease.
Feel free to disregard my specific example, but my main point is what I care about and I believe it's true.
22 Mar 2018, 23:44 PM
#59
Posts: 2742
If memory serves back in the day when T34 was in T3 it was really bad, penetration was worse and it didn't have the huge hull mg buffs so anti inf damage relied on lucky shots from the main gun. Best use was for ramming things.
The reason people went t3 was for the T70 mostly which was extremely potent squad wiping machine and the goal was to close out the game quickly before late game axis armor started to pile up. (or rely on call- in meta after t3) Also the T4 didn't require T3 and all the units T4 had were very situational/weak.
T3 had all the AI (HT, T70, T34), and T4 had the AT and arti. (SU-85, SU-76, Katyusha)
This made the SU-76 hilariously stupid to get, and the HT and T70 arriving typically too late compared to the usefulness of an actual piece of armor.
But the t70 could also crush for a period at this time, so that was a major advantage.
And as it was already stated, calling in the T34/85 battlegroup was almost always a better choice than going T4 for unturreted AT options.
Hence T4 wasn't really used for except for luxury rocket artillery. Kinda like Ostheer T4 nowadays (still.)
Current tech system and unit selection is way superior.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
22 Mar 2018, 23:56 PM
#60
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
Wasn't suppression removed quite some time ago due to its murder potential?
I'm pretty sure it was.
PW still suppresses infantry.
bg /l
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